Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Yes
152
52%
No, I would never do such a thing.
124
42%
Not Telling.
7
2%
I'm still using a crack. You're all suckers.
9
3%
 
Total votes: 292

andydes
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by andydes » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:41 pm

gavspav wrote:I chose not to choose crack. I chose Live.
Choose live. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed- interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing sprit- crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing you last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose live... But why would I want to do a thing like that?

Oh yeah, I bought Live 4 box straight up. Didn’t even try the demo, it just seemed to be the program best suited for my needs.

pulsoc
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by pulsoc » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:45 pm

I started by using a crack, needed to be able to save in order to really evaluate it (this was using it in conjunction with a live band). The crack crashed after a month (brilliant marketing on the Abes part), and although I wasn't fully convinced I shelled out the cash because there was nothing that could even come close. Damn them.

kristoffer1989
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by kristoffer1989 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:34 pm

I spendt maybe 4-5 months using the non save version of live. No crack here=)
Kristoffer Lislegaard
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candy warlos
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by candy warlos » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:35 pm

Been using cracks of Live 1, 2, 3, and 4 then I bought licenses for Live 5 and 7.
All the people I know who use Live started with a crack, then bought full version or LE, depending on their needs.
I always thought (back then) that ableton "released" the cracks themselves, so that it would be a wonderfully addictive marketing tool as well as a pain in the ass (the infamous copy-violation-whatever).
I decided to go legit when I stopped being a complete n00b at computer music ; it was not worth it before.

x0x
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by x0x » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:17 pm

I used a cracked copy off and on for a year or two.

Once I ascertained that I could use live the way I used my MPC2Kxl (and then some) I bought Live 7, and recently upgraded to 8.
Live rig: HP DV6604nr, Live 8, MAudio 1814, Virus Snow, Waldorf Blofeld
Additional Studio Equipment: Nord Lead 3, Moog Voyager, MPC2000xl, TR-808, TR-707, Soundcraft FX16, x0xb0x, Paia Phatman

inmazevo
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by inmazevo » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:27 pm

Nope.

Never used cracked/pirated software or music ever.
I'm a software developer, so doing so always felt a bit counter-intuitive... though a great many software devs I know (not the majority) use cracked software, despite the fact that their living is based on people paying for stuff and the fact that they have more than enough money to buy a $300 - $700 app (depending).

That's what demos are for.
In the case where the software might not have a demo (a la Cubase), well... in my experience there's a reason they don't have a demo. I've actually bought a bunch of stuff that didn't have a demo, and never ended up upgrading any of it.

Theft is theft. Sorry, but it is.
Rationalize away... like people do. If it makes you feel better about stealing something, fine.

- zevo
infinite density, zero volume

leedsquietman
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by leedsquietman » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:44 pm

+1

Totally. All these people feeling the need to confess had probably better STFU before Ableton introduce a dongle, or PACE/Synchrosoft e-licensing, non of which is convenient to the end user and sometimes affects performance.

The word DISCRETION is one quite a few people on this forum could do with learning. Look it up. If you went legit, then you did the right thing, but we don't need to hear about your stories of running warez on here. This is about the 7th such thread in the last month, and each time more and more crawl out from the woodwork and try to argue that using cracks is just fine and dandy and then most go on to profess they are reformed characters (although quite often allude to the fact that they are using other cracks, but because they like Ableton they are now top line A+ paying customers).

Ableton will surely be scrutinizing this very carefully and it might not play out so well for a few of you out there - and extra copy protection is a PITA for everyone, especially those who are doing the right thing and paying for what they use.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

Homebelly
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by Homebelly » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:45 pm

I have never run a crack of Live.
I've had the demo on what ever computer i was using of just about every version. Well, at least from V3 on.
Around version 6 i had an Epiphany moment while using the demo one afternoon.
All kinds of light bulbs went off and doors opened and i was hooked.
Bought a license right there on the spot with my credit card.

The only crack i have used was REASON.
I ran that for a year or so, then dropped the cash on it.
Found out soon after that it wasn't really for me.
My brother was running a crack of it, so i emailed the prop's
and transferd my license to him.

On an Evangelical bend, i've managed to convert a couple of crackers
to legit users of live.

It has also been my experience that people using cracks most often end up
dropping most of them, and buy one or two. The next group tend to down load every thing and not use any of it.
A very small percentage seem to be loyal to a single application, but only use the cracks.
I've also had dealings with some one that had a license for some thing or other, but used the crack
as it ran better and didn't need a dongle.
15" 2.4 MBP/Live/Sampler/Operator/ Home made Dumble clone/Two Strats/One Jazz Bass.
Come and visit any time= Soundcloud

abort
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by abort » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:53 pm

Thinking that the reason Ableton releases such a nice demo package is enough to sell it to a potential buyer.?

Its my opinion that the average buyer of an Ableton product has been a producer for some time. But seems annoying to me that most people I know still use cracked FL studio crap ..pisses me off.

mholloway
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by mholloway » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:06 pm

the poll doesn't provide enough options. here's my situation:

- I *might* have considered pirating it to check it out, but Ableton provides a perfectly good trial download, which I checked out, was sold on, an then bought the program.

seriously, is the trial download -- full features *including suite version* for two weeks -- not enough? the premise of this post seems to be, would/did you pirate the software as a try-before-you-buy method, which just seems absurd when ableton offers such a fully-fledged demo for precisely that purpose.

-M
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

Homebelly
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by Homebelly » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:24 pm

mholloway wrote:the poll doesn't provide enough options. here's my situation:

- I *might* have considered pirating it to check it out, but Ableton provides a perfectly good trial download, which I checked out, was sold on, an then bought the program.

seriously, is the trial download -- full features *including suite version* for two weeks -- not enough? the premise of this post seems to be, would/did you pirate the software as a try-before-you-buy method, which just seems absurd when ableton offers such a fully-fledged demo for precisely that purpose.

-M
The 14 day demo is quite a recent thing.
Before that it was an unlimited use, but no save demo.
15" 2.4 MBP/Live/Sampler/Operator/ Home made Dumble clone/Two Strats/One Jazz Bass.
Come and visit any time= Soundcloud

gjm
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by gjm » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:45 pm

mholloway wrote:...seriously, is the trial download -- full features *including suite version* for two weeks -- not enough?
No. It is definitely not enough time for inexperienced DAW users. A lot of new users have absolutely no gear what so ever, underpowered comp's, and little direction, let alone hours and hours of free time to do nothing but evaluate and make an informed decision about all things Live. The 14 days are aimed at people with considerable past experience, not useful at all for the avid teenage torrents user, who might have homework, a girl friend, Saturday sport, a few chores, and only enough pocket money to top up the mobile phone.
iMac - 10.10.3 - Live 9 Suite - APC40 - Axiom 61 - TX81z - Firestudio Mobile - Focal Alpha 80's - Godin Session - Home made foot controller

Angstrom
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by Angstrom » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:49 pm

mholloway wrote: seriously, is the trial download -- full features *including suite version* for two weeks -- not enough?
one thing that product designs, and software designers in particular, have to do is design for the clients they DO have and not the ones they WANT to have.

I often have to make adjustments to my own programming work to suit the seemingly odd behaviour of the general public. Long ago I learned that when mass behaviour seems to go against logic, it is my logic which is flawed, not the mass of users. Because I am writing for users. They are the ultimate arbiter, not me. If it's my opinion versus the actual behaviour of 100,000 people, and I disagree with 100,000 people then I will lose.

In this case the answer to your question "is it not enough?" has been proven to be "no, it is not enough", even though that answer seems both unreasonable, immoral, unjustified, etc. That is the answer. It's not the answer that anyone wants to hear, but it is the actual answer. When selling to the real world it's better to take measures to make the product fit better with the proven real world market.

In the Ableton's case they created their (relatively) new 14 day full free license thingy, which I'm sure will take a chunk out of those who would have got a cracked copy to try. And it does seem to be 'try' as the poll shows most people do then buy. But, I bet that even this will not impact the 'try before you buy' contingent too much

Because as unreasonable as it may seem - the 'demo' requirements of most people are actually a lot more than software companies (or anybody) would normally think of as rational. What the market seems to indicate is that a demo period of many months of functional use is what is required. I know that seems illogical, but look at the behaviour of the respondents. I've got to say I can kind of understand this. I have an ongoing battle with MaxMSP, once every two years I am allowed to demo thier software, at which point I have 30 days to do it. Then I usually get a ton of work and the demo times out. I have installed 3 demos of Max and although I know I probably might like it, I've never actually found out due to not having enough time to do so. I have never bought it because even 30 days was not enough (when I spend 28 days working 14 hour days). So I can understand an urge to simply bypass the bullshit and really try an application on my own terms. In this case I have not though.

Also, I've got to say that making emotional "you are all criminals" statements on a mass behaviour like this is less than pointless. This is the mass behaviour of people, and the people do then go on to make the purchases (if the poll is right). It may not fit with your moral world view, but then most of our modern activities would be completely immoral when viewed by someone from the 19th Century. Morality is a fluid thing, and it is driven by the average of behaviour.

Business will adapt to the realities of this new morality and this whole discussion will seem bizarre and anachronistic.

Of course, it's still stupid to go on the official forum of a product and say "hi, I'm using a crack, can anyone help".
but there's a difference between 'stupid' and 'immoral'

SubFunk
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by SubFunk » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:57 pm

Yes of course, software is different then hardware and if it proofed good enough they always see my money.
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Homebelly
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Re: Poll: Did You Use A Crack For Live Before You Bought It?

Post by Homebelly » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:55 pm

I think this is a very healthy conversation that should be aired on the abes site.
If they have any kind of business acumen, then they should be watching it.
I for one would be very disappointed if they where to over react and assume we are all thieves.
On the other hand, it has become my opinion that they do spend a lot of time and energy
thinking about how to use user feed back, and then implement it in some way none of us
has thought of, but most of us agree is awesome.
Right now it seems the consensus is that the consumer needs a longer and more relaxed demo period.
This isn't available, and so there are two options.
One is to take the risk and drop the cash.
The other is to down load an unrestricted long term non time out "Version"
15" 2.4 MBP/Live/Sampler/Operator/ Home made Dumble clone/Two Strats/One Jazz Bass.
Come and visit any time= Soundcloud

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