Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
drush
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by drush » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:12 pm

Jarvisimon wrote: I don't want to sound like a killjoy but that's not a particularly skillful mix at all.
are you talking about that youtube vid? you're completely missing the point.

Jarvisimon
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by Jarvisimon » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:40 pm

drush wrote:
Jarvisimon wrote: I don't want to sound like a killjoy but that's not a particularly skillful mix at all.
are you talking about that youtube vid? you're completely missing the point.
Yes I was talking about the youtube vid, as that was the link that was posted.

I'm sure he's made some good tunes, it's just that wasn't anything special. But then, I saw Brandon Block once (just after he did his bit at the Brits) and regretted having bothered. He was cheesily awful but the crowd loved him.

wildtek
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by wildtek » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:47 pm

Ok, I assume that I'm a supporter of Jeff Mills so I'm going to try to preach you about the man :-)
The video link I posted is from 1997, no warp markers at this time, no computer as a 'dj tool'...

A pure performance on three turntables, right in front of what ? 7000 or 8000 peoples ? I think he's doing it right. Add that the man was playing something like 60 records an hour at a time... With errors but it's in the groove, it's the techno flow as it is, it's very Detroit style for those who know a bit of the city. It's not anymore 'errors' at this speed, it's just few accidents that make the difference between a real human and a machine. It's raw live performance of what a Dj is.

Today, all is so proper, so planned, so predictible. Jeff Mills is maybe today away from the 'normality' but he afforded so much to techno music that I don't think we can't say he's never been exciting or good. It would be a lack of respect for an artist who had a so huge influence on a lot of others.

On the production side, I don't remember hearing anything poor from his side. It's not all good at 100 % but it's always interesting and often very conceptual so, with a strong idea behind. Far away from hit makers who are imo not very exciting because I like art to be a risk, an attempt to disturb peoples to generate a reaction or a feeling.

Last point would be the business side, he's a good model for lot of techno artists/labels ! Near 30 years at the top of worldwide Dj's, 2 main labels that have been way ahead of time during years (Axis/Purpose Maker) and keeping the right attitude on his music production, I mean he's maybe highly payed to perform but does he ever failed into facility to produce commercial shit ? I don't think.

And he's at origins of Underground Resistance with Mike Banks, again a very big influence on today's music (techno side)...

He desserves more than any other his place into techno history I think.

Just my two (and a bit more) cents...
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by ChiDJ » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:04 pm

wildtek wrote:Ok, I assume that I'm a supporter of Jeff Mills so I'm going to try to preach you about the man :-)
The video link I posted is from 1997, no warp markers at this time, no computer as a 'dj tool'...

A pure performance on three turntables, right in front of what ? 7000 or 8000 peoples ? I think he's doing it right. Add that the man was playing something like 60 records an hour at a time... With errors but it's in the groove, it's the techno flow as it is, it's very Detroit style for those who know a bit of the city. It's not anymore 'errors' at this speed, it's just few accidents that make the difference between a real human and a machine. It's raw live performance of what a Dj is.

Today, all is so proper, so planned, so predictible. Jeff Mills is maybe today away from the 'normality' but he afforded so much to techno music that I don't think we can't say he's never been exciting or good. It would be a lack of respect for an artist who had a so huge influence on a lot of others.

On the production side, I don't remember hearing anything poor from his side. It's not all good at 100 % but it's always interesting and often very conceptual so, with a strong idea behind. Far away from hit makers who are imo not very exciting because I like art to be a risk, an attempt to disturb peoples to generate a reaction or a feeling.

Last point would be the business side, he's a good model for lot of techno artists/labels ! Near 30 years at the top of worldwide Dj's, 2 main labels that have been way ahead of time during years (Axis/Purpose Maker) and keeping the right attitude on his music production, I mean he's maybe highly payed to perform but does he ever failed into facility to produce commercial shit ? I don't think.

And he's at origins of Underground Resistance with Mike Banks, again a very big influence on today's music (techno side)...

He desserves more than any other his place into techno history I think.

Just my two (and a bit more) cents...
Bro,

I agree with you 100%. I'm gonna sound old but, WTH:

Most of these people on the forum have no sense of the Magic Of Jeff Mills. He always played on the edge. Unfortunately, the art of beat matching and "the groove" are concepts that are getting lost with laptop DJ's. Those skills aren't even required anymore so how the fuck can they relate. God, I sound old and bitter.

Read my sig. sigh...so true.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Tod
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doc holiday
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by doc holiday » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:28 pm

ChiDJ wrote:[
Bro,

I agree with you 100%. I'm gonna sound old but, WTH:

Most of these people on the forum have no sense of the Magic Of Jeff Mills. He always played on the edge. Unfortunately, the art of beat matching and "the groove" are concepts that are getting lost with laptop DJ's. Those skills aren't even required anymore so how the fuck can they relate. God, I sound old and bitter.

Read my sig. sigh...so true.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Tod

the saddest thing is that those skills stopped being required for turntable dj's around that time.
the whole "your not supposed to hear it" thing turned into dj's not fucking mixing and no one even noticing.

beat mixing is not easy, especially when you throw down on three decks.
man the feeling of bringing that track in when you know the tempo is still off, 15 seconds after you drop the needle and riding that fader.. but it's perfect! it's fun. i'll never stop mixing.

Jarvisimon
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by Jarvisimon » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:30 pm

ChiDJ wrote:the art of beat matching and "the groove" are concepts that are getting lost with laptop DJ's.
Having not played with my decks in ages, I thought i'd give them a quick spin and what do you know? I managed to get the beats right first time and the mix didn't clash.

It's not that difficult and to be honest, I much prefer the present situation where dj's actually create new music on the fly from pre-prepared loops. Not that I party any more (i'm 43 and got into it when I was 24).

Progress is a great thing.

Anyone want to buy a pair of Technic 1210 Mk2's with an ecler mixer? Decks are flightcased but the mixer isn't. £500

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contakt321
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by contakt321 » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:49 pm

ChiDJ wrote:
I agree with you 100%. I'm gonna sound old but, WTH:

Most of these people on the forum have no sense of the Magic Of Jeff Mills. He always played on the edge. Unfortunately, the art of beat matching and "the groove" are concepts that are getting lost with laptop DJ's. Those skills aren't even required anymore so how the fuck can they relate. God, I sound old and bitter.

Read my sig. sigh...so true.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Tod
I feel the same way. Mills was and still is AMAZING. To beatmatch that fast and have the music work is truly an insane skill that I don't think I could even get close to.

If Q-Bert is the Hendrix of djing, Mills is the Miles Davis to me.

Daim
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by Daim » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:03 pm

best dj i know.. far ahead of others

smutek
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by smutek » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:18 pm

wildtek wrote: Ok, I assume that I'm a supporter of Jeff Mills so I'm going to try to preach you about the man :-)
The video link I posted is from 1997, no warp markers at this time, no computer as a 'dj tool'...

A pure performance on three turntables, right in front of what ? 7000 or 8000 peoples ? I think he's doing it right. Add that the man was playing something like 60 records an hour at a time... With errors but it's in the groove, it's the techno flow as it is, it's very Detroit style for those who know a bit of the city. It's not anymore 'errors' at this speed, it's just few accidents that make the difference between a real human and a machine. It's raw live performance of what a Dj is.

Today, all is so proper, so planned, so predictible. Jeff Mills is maybe today away from the 'normality' but he afforded so much to techno music that I don't think we can't say he's never been exciting or good. It would be a lack of respect for an artist who had a so huge influence on a lot of others.

On the production side, I don't remember hearing anything poor from his side. It's not all good at 100 % but it's always interesting and often very conceptual so, with a strong idea behind. Far away from hit makers who are imo not very exciting because I like art to be a risk, an attempt to disturb peoples to generate a reaction or a feeling.

Last point would be the business side, he's a good model for lot of techno artists/labels ! Near 30 years at the top of worldwide Dj's, 2 main labels that have been way ahead of time during years (Axis/Purpose Maker) and keeping the right attitude on his music production, I mean he's maybe highly payed to perform but does he ever failed into facility to produce commercial shit ? I don't think.

And he's at origins of Underground Resistance with Mike Banks, again a very big influence on today's music (techno side)...

He desserves more than any other his place into techno history I think.

Just my two (and a bit more) cents...
ChiDJ wrote:
Bro,

I agree with you 100%. I'm gonna sound old but, WTH:

Most of these people on the forum have no sense of the Magic Of Jeff Mills. He always played on the edge. Unfortunately, the art of beat matching and "the groove" are concepts that are getting lost with laptop DJ's. Those skills aren't even required anymore so how the fuck can they relate. God, I sound old and bitter.

Read my sig. sigh...so true.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Tod
+1 to all of the above.

The man has been playing records since the 80's and making them almost as long. He's been a huge influence on more artists than I can name, has been an influential part of techno music pretty much from the start and has done a lot for the scene. He gets respect for those reasons alone.

Who cares if some of the mixes are sloppy. That happens. (especially on three decks playing 60 records an hour to 10,000 + crowds..)

I'd much rather hear the imperfections of someone just getting down with that kind of energy over some cocky perfecto tiesto clone.

Some of the responses here remind me of some hip hop thread I was reading a while back on the serato forums. There was a post to a video with Guru and some kid responded with something like "lol, who dat old man"

:roll:

hoffman2k
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by hoffman2k » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:33 pm

Since when are sloppy mixes a godawful thing?
Anybody remember Claude Young?
The man that puts so much force on the decks, that the whole stage needs reinforcement.
Its not like anybody expected him to do a clean mix with his freaking elbows or teeth.
But he did pull it off a lot of the times. Add to that, that he mostly spinned the classics..

Steve Wade
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by Steve Wade » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:45 pm

Don't be raggin' on Jeff Mills-cmon!

doc holiday
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by doc holiday » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:53 pm

hoffman2k wrote:Since when are sloppy mixes a godawful thing?
Anybody remember Claude Young?
..
he'll post on here from time to time.
great tunes!

sloppy mixes are better then not mixing.
and those 30 second bs transitions do not count as a mix. i don't want to hear how easy it is to slag off a 30 second mix.

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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by Steve Wade » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:10 pm

I will agree with you also, I meet alot of kids today who tell me they Dj and i ask them what kind of decks they have, the usual response is "I don't have decks, I use virtual Dj or some crap like that. They have no clue about beatmatching or actual mixing, kinda sad, the art is dying. Alot of the new Dj's out there today wouldn't know what a pitch control was if it was right in front of their nose. Granted I have stayed up on the technology and I do use Ableton along with my livesets but I do not consider myself a laptop Dj-back in my day we didn't have beat counters or warp markers and we liked it! Now I sound old and bitter too.-
doc holiday wrote:
ChiDJ wrote:[
Bro,

I agree with you 100%. I'm gonna sound old but, WTH:

Most of these people on the forum have no sense of the Magic Of Jeff Mills. He always played on the edge. Unfortunately, the art of beat matching and "the groove" are concepts that are getting lost with laptop DJ's. Those skills aren't even required anymore so how the fuck can they relate. God, I sound old and bitter.

Read my sig. sigh...so true.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Tod

the saddest thing is that those skills stopped being required for turntable dj's around that time.
the whole "your not supposed to hear it" thing turned into dj's not fucking mixing and no one even noticing.

beat mixing is not easy, especially when you throw down on three decks.
man the feeling of bringing that track in when you know the tempo is still off, 15 seconds after you drop the needle and riding that fader.. but it's perfect! it's fun. i'll never stop mixing.

contakt321
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by contakt321 » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:12 pm

doc holiday wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:Since when are sloppy mixes a godawful thing?
Anybody remember Claude Young?
..
he'll post on here from time to time.
great tunes!
Really? Under what name? Wow.

Growing up in Michigan Mills and Claude Young were LEGENDARY and people endlessly talked about them, how they mixed and actively aspired to be like them more so than any other djs.

twitterytom
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Re: Was Jeff Mills really doing something?

Post by twitterytom » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:29 pm

i find these melancholic posts about losing the art of beat matching a bit redundant. its the same thing over and over again. a new way of doing things comes up and people start moaning.

i've seen really boring perfectly beat matched sets and i've seen reelly exciting wild and energetic ableton sets.

like many people have said above. to me its about pushing yourself. if you start using the technology at your limits be it ableton, traktor, virtual dj, turntables or cdjs then you can create truly great and inspiring sets.

for me since i've started djing with ableton the risks i take are not that great any more with respect to making a bad beat match but i've managed to play and mix a much larger variety of different forms of music/effects. i often take bigger risks now and fuck up more with ableton than i did with vinyl / cdj. but thats part of the fun.

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