Looper + Live as Looper

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
samplehead
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Re: Looper + Live as Looper

Post by samplehead » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:48 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:
samplehead wrote:Ignore that. The CC is working, just can't see it in Clip View :(
Hmm. Select a clip. Look down in your Clip View. Make sure that the little button with an E on it is highlighted. This will bring up the Envelopes window. There are two drop downs in the upper left of this window. Device Chooser and Control Chooser. THESE are what you use to manipulate the clip envelopes. Is that what you are after? :?:

Bingo! Thanks for that, it would have been a bit lame if Live didn't have this feature ;)

LoopStationZebra
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Re: Looper + Live as Looper

Post by LoopStationZebra » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:12 pm

samplehead wrote:
LoopStationZebra wrote:
samplehead wrote:Ignore that. The CC is working, just can't see it in Clip View :(
Hmm. Select a clip. Look down in your Clip View. Make sure that the little button with an E on it is highlighted. This will bring up the Envelopes window. There are two drop downs in the upper left of this window. Device Chooser and Control Chooser. THESE are what you use to manipulate the clip envelopes. Is that what you are after? :?:

Bingo! Thanks for that, it would have been a bit lame if Live didn't have this feature ;)
Cool. And remember, check that Manual! lol. :wink:
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samplehead
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Re: Looper + Live as Looper

Post by samplehead » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:47 pm

I did actually search the manual for "Clip View" and "conrtoller", but alas...

Since I'm using a FCB1010 as my controller, I think I may actually be able to skip the whole dummy clips + IAC Driver trick, because each button on the FCB can send 1 Note + 2 CC's simultaneously, so that should be enough,

i.e. 3 MIDI mappable events at once: start looper, launch track, Global Quantize to None.

and then one more button to: put looper into play, launch track (set to toggle), Global Quantize to 1 Bar (or whatever is preferred).

Programming FCB tonight to test this....

LoopStationZebra
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Re: Looper + Live as Looper

Post by LoopStationZebra » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:50 pm

samplehead wrote:I did actually search the manual for "Clip View" and "conrtoller", but alas...

Since I'm using a FCB1010 as my controller, I think I may actually be able to skip the whole dummy clips + IAC Driver trick, because each button on the FCB can send 1 Note + 2 CC's simultaneously, so that should be enough,

i.e. 3 MIDI mappable events at once: start looper, launch track, Global Quantize to None.

and then one more button to: put looper into play, launch track (set to toggle), Global Quantize to 1 Bar (or whatever is preferred).

Programming FCB tonight to test this....
Ahh. Let us know how it goes. But don't leave those dummy clips behind. They are beautiful for controlling audio effects; particularly for live work.
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Jekblad
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Re: Looper + Live as Looper

Post by Jekblad » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:51 am

here are my dummy clips in action... http://oakleafmusic.com/home/?page_id=37

i'm not worried about recording multiple parts in my setup, but it show's a little dummy action payoff.

i'd love to take a look at your template, bro! hope it works like the magic you want it to be.
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samplehead
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Re: Looper + Live as Looper

Post by samplehead » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:13 am

Hey Jekblad, checked out your gear video, cool setup. I like what you've done with the dummy clips to do eq changes, faux drum fills etc.

I'll gladly share my template once it's ready, expecting that to take a matter of weeks yet... I'm really still planning my workflow, and have several requirements to meet. But the proof of concept that I'm doing currently looks promising, i.e. Looper is setting the tempo of the set whilst all loops are actually being recorded in Live as Clips. But I also need scene change control (i.e. verse /chorus etc) and multiple instruments (3 guitar tracks, 3 vocal/percussion tracks, 3 midi tracks), and any one of the 9 instruments/tracks needs to be able to be the song starter (i.e. first loop tempo setter) as inspiration strikes, and/or I feel like starting the song/jam on keys or guitar or drums, or vocals etc at will.

All of these tracks are looped live starting with an empty set. The FCB1010 needs to control all of it... so far it looks feasible, I'm planning to use each BANK in the FCB as the controls for 1 track. With BANK 0 being special, for doing things like beat repeats, fade outs etc.

Basic current plan for FCB1010 layout:

FCB
Button Description
1 Presses Record in Looper, Presses Launch Track in Track corresponding to current Bank, Sets Global Quantize to None
2 Presses Play in Looper, Presses Launch Track in Trach corresponding to current Bank, Sets Global Quantize to 1 BAR
3 Controls Looper Big Button (to enable easy global control e.g. Stop -> Stop All, and Clear to be ready for next song/jam)
4 Undo Last Recording (not sure how to map this to a MIDI command yet)
5 Presses Launch Track (toggle mode) to enable recording of instruments/tracks other than first instrument.
6 Select FX Chain Zone 1 on corresponding audio input track. (On MIDI tracks selects same on *actual* track, where the FX zones correspond to sound presets, e.g. wurly, rhodes, hammond)
7 Same as 6, but to select Zone 2
8 Same as 6, but so select Zone 3
9 Previous Scene (Scene Up)
10 Next Scene (Scene Down)


Repeat the above 9 times (one setup per track/instrument). Note that a lot of the banks buttons will be identical, e.g. buttons 9 and 10 are exactly the same in every bank.

The first 2 buttons are only used for the first loop in any song/jam (no matter which instrument/track/bank). For all other loops buttons 4 and 5 are used to create the clips.

Remember Looper does not actually record anything it's just used to set tempo. Also as per prior Looping solutions, all my instrument tracks are always Armed for Record, and the actual inputs come from monitoring tracks setup for this. These input tracks also have Audio FX Racks set up, which are controlled via Midi mappings to the Chain Select Zone.

Also, just for the extra possibilities, I'm considering making one of the instruments/tracks/banks, actually record into Looper. So that the option to do sound on sound looping is there when I want it. (edit: remembering that any such track will loop throughout all scene changes, i.e. really only useful for say percussion loops that play in verse and chorus etc)

All of this is subject to change, don't know what unforeseen obstacles I'm yet to hit ;)

Jekblad
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Re: Looper + Live as Looper

Post by Jekblad » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:46 pm

heck yes bro!

Def sounds possible, make it happen :)


One thing I've learned is to worry about extra possibilities after I'm good with the original concept. Over and over I create these monster templates with so many options I can't remember them all. Giving myself limits like using only one set, and only one bank on fcb turned out to be a good thing.

Your concept seems right on the money, don't forget to label your pedal and practice with your shoes on. ;)
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LoopStationZebra
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Re: Looper + Live as Looper

Post by LoopStationZebra » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:44 pm

Jekblad wrote:One thing I've learned is to worry about extra possibilities after I'm good with the original concept. Over and over I create these monster templates with so many options I can't remember them all. Giving myself limits like using only one set, and only one bank on fcb turned out to be a good thing.

Your concept seems right on the money, don't forget to label your pedal and practice with your shoes on. ;)

I'm down to one main template (that's pretty extensive), but utilize several banks on the FCB. 1 for bass, 1 for mic, 1 for Looper, 1 for guitar, 1 for ext synth and soft synths. I utilize 2 other templates, but the only difference is in the effects that are on Sends and dummy clips. Can't have the same effects for every tune when playing live, lol.
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samplehead
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Re: Looper + Live as Looper

Post by samplehead » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:36 pm

Hi Zebra, any chance you can elaborate on your template? Do you do A/B section looping? Do you start with nothing? If so, can you start with any instrument or do you have some specific workflows?

Cheers

dj superflat
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Re: Looper + Live as Looper

Post by dj superflat » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:37 pm

loop, belated response to your question:

mobius is phenomenal, i would pay serious money for it (it's free), it has the easiest midi config of anything i've used, i run 8 indy tracks (all synced), each with 8 loops on it, you can insert across one or all, reverse one or all, substitute across one or all, etc., all on the fly. it's a real looper, not a glorified multitrack (not that i don't love a glorified multitrack, which works great for laying down more traditional song type structures).

just wish it had the modulation/warble on recorded material like angstrolooper or the zvex analog loop junkie.

LoopStationZebra
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Re: Looper + Live as Looper

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:36 pm

dj superflat wrote:loop, belated response to your question:

mobius is phenomenal, i would pay serious money for it (it's free), it has the easiest midi config of anything i've used, i run 8 indy tracks (all synced), each with 8 loops on it, you can insert across one or all, reverse one or all, substitute across one or all, etc., all on the fly. it's a real looper, not a glorified multitrack (not that i don't love a glorified multitrack, which works great for laying down more traditional song type structures).

just wish it had the modulation/warble on recorded material like angstrolooper or the zvex analog loop junkie.

Ahh, looks excellent. I have seen that before and remember now....the Mac version is standalone with no MIDI clock sync support. :cry: Damn. Seeing it again makes me drool.
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dj superflat
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Re: Looper + Live as Looper

Post by dj superflat » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:35 pm

the mac version is quickly getting up to speed with all features, so i would check back.

gtodd876
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Re: Looper + Live as Looper

Post by gtodd876 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:37 pm

It's isn't just standalone. The Mobius beta 10 for mac comes with VST and AU plug. It's still a work in progress but as DJ said its quickly coming up to speed.
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