Work Arounds For Clip Automation?

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lowbias
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:11 pm

Work Arounds For Clip Automation?

Post by lowbias » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:55 pm

I'm new to Live (still using the demo to figure out if it will work for me) and after searching the forum, it seems that we can't record automation in clips. :( Sorry if this is a sore point. I too don't quite understand why this isn't available, but I'm sure there is a good technical reason. Knowing that, what are your workarounds for this, if any?

I had created a track for an NI FM8 sound and recorded automation of the morphing X/Y parameter in the arrangement view. I would like to take that automation and copy it over into a clip. Is that possible? Is it just *recording* automation that can't be done in clips? Or can there be no automation in clips at all? I'm specifically looking for parameters of external synths, like cutoff frequency and the like.

I would appreciate any help you could offer in terms of getting parameter automation into clips.

UKRuss
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Re: Work Arounds For Clip Automation?

Post by UKRuss » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:14 pm

Check the manual for 'Clip Envelopes', problem solved.

lowbias
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Re: Work Arounds For Clip Automation?

Post by lowbias » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:21 pm

Will do, thanks!

prince skeltor
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Re: Work Arounds For Clip Automation?

Post by prince skeltor » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:22 pm

Hi lowbias-
I have been working on a similar problem. It looks like clip envelopes cannot be recorded the way you desire. One workaround I found though is to record the playback of the clip directly to audio and manipulate the parameters you are desiring to automate as you will. At least the sound of the envelope changes will be recorded, however,you will have no envelope "line" to edit for later, which kind of sucks. But if you get it right, you can paste the audio to any sections of the arrangement where you would like it to repeat.

prince skeltor
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Re: Work Arounds For Clip Automation?

Post by prince skeltor » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:28 pm

oh, and yes, you can DRAW automation in clips, no problem. I also found that, if you set the clip envelope window just right, activate the "scroll" arrow, and keep the "drawing" tool just past center, you can "draw" an envelope real time as the clip plays. It's pretty tricky to do but I got it to work. Momentarily slowing the tempo while you do this helps also. Experiment with the zoom level of the envelope window to get this to work.

prince skeltor
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Re: Work Arounds For Clip Automation?

Post by prince skeltor » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:30 pm

One more thing, you would of course be "drawing" in real time with your mouse in the above example.

emef
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Re: Work Arounds For Clip Automation?

Post by emef » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:49 pm

like people have said you can just draw in the automation
if you know what you are aiming for this is easy although not as pleasant as knobbing it in

you can also do automation in arrange
then copy and paste the automation from arrange into the clips

thats what i do when i need the automation to be in the clip for live sets
a bit time consuming but at least it works

would be lovely if there was some sort of one click macro that contained all the clicks and commands to do it automatically
maybe we'll get that big software rewrite and recordable clip automation with live9

TheEclectic
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Re: Work Arounds For Clip Automation?

Post by TheEclectic » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:41 pm

I am new to Ableton 8 and I am having similar issues as lowbias, except with Kore Player.

After reading the manual on Clip Envelopes , did a ‘copy and paste’ my automation from the Arrangement View for the ‘X’ ( Kore name ‘ShOD: SV Mrph X’) and the ‘Y’ ( Kore name ‘ShOD: SV Mrph Y’) to my Clip in the Session view.

It did not work at first. I thought that the automation would move the X/Y control in my Kore VST device, but it did not. It was by accident that I discovered I needed to set the K/Y in the Kore Player device to 100% for both the X and the Y.

Once I did this, the automation worked. However, when I save, the 100% settings for the X/Y did not save with the set – I have to reset these parameters every time I open the set.

Does anyone know how to get the X/Y parameters to automatically go to 100%?

Also, does anyone know how to set these up using Midi Control? I think this may be part of the solution.

Thank you.

Kodama
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Re: Work Arounds For Clip Automation?

Post by Kodama » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:54 pm

The best work around is to use midi learn on 3rd party devices.

You can do it with extra tracks and loopbacks, but it's messy & buggy.

Otherwise than that, please feel free add it to the feature wishlist!
GO VEGAN!!! - Macbook Air, Bass Station II, Some Korg shit, Live Suite, U-He, Audio Damage, Microtonic, Ohmicide, more soft stuffs, awesome controllers, euro rack modular synth,an awesome cat.

loquat
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Re: Work Arounds For Clip Automation?

Post by loquat » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:21 am

TheEclectic wrote: Once I did this, the automation worked. However, when I save, the 100% settings for the X/Y did not save with the set – I have to reset these parameters every time I open the set.

Does anyone know how to get the X/Y parameters to automatically go to 100%?

Also, does anyone know how to set these up using Midi Control? I think this may be part of the solution.

Thank you.
I have the same problem. I still am trying to figure this out myself. I did notice a "Return to Default" setting when I right clicked on a Macro that I wanted to adjust in the Device Rack I was using. Maybe if you re-save the Device Rack or patch you're using with the macro value at 127 you won't need to crank it up everytime.
:?:
What annoys me is that after I record midi data in arrangement view with midi notes, pitch bend, modulation, and device rack specific macro control envelopes I have to manually copy the macro envelopes when I go to session view. Is there a way to copy everything I recorded in one shot?

TheEclectic
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Re: Work Arounds For Clip Automation?

Post by TheEclectic » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:32 am

Here is what I have been able to discover so far, which is Kore Player specific:

I can record automation using the morph area over the midi track. It records automation envelopes for the ‘X’ and the ‘Y’ in the arrangement view.

To get the ‘X’ and the ‘Y’ parameters to show in my midi track in the session view I have to select ‘configure’ from the device menu and then double click in Kore's morph area.

I can copy the envelopes one at a time from the arrangement view and paste them into the clips in the session view.

In order to use the automation, the ‘X’ and the ‘Y’ parameters have to be set at 100%. To get Ableton to remember these settings I go to Kore Player, select ‘learn’, click on the ‘H’ in the morph area and select ‘learn’ again. I then save and get out of the set and then open it again. The triangles in the device area should be at 100%. However, I have found that it is a little glitch and I sometimes have to go thru this process more than once. I found that doing the ‘learn’ without moving the sliders/x-y control area to 100% works best and the changes do not show up intil I get out of teh set and reopen it.

I am still experimenting, however, and may found out better information in the future.

Daim
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Re: Work Arounds For Clip Automation?

Post by Daim » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:11 pm

UKRuss wrote:Check the manual for 'Clip Envelopes', problem solved.
No, http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68227

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