Ableton Forum

Tone Deft wrote:

Android Bishop wrote: You dont see them giving each other rights in the wild.

You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage.

I am trying real goddamn hard to find a pic of Bishop dissecting the face hugger and marvelling in fascination, but to no avail.

more like

^^^
kind of a bad idea hitting nitrous constantly while working.

That's what ended up happening to this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKFyRfHGPcA
(6 minutes in, although I'd just watch the whole thing cause its awesome)

great movie, I know it well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgXIyGbw ... re=related

tomorrow's another f-ing Monday, good luck with the grumpy PETA crowd.

Cant say I agree with experimenting on animals. It somehow suggests that we are above them in some way. We are equals on the planet, and i see no reason why we should exploit them to artificially increase our life span. I'm a firm beliver that 90% of medicines do very little anyhow, they usually give the patient a psychological boost that helps them overcome the illness themselves. In fact I think we are a far less healthy world now than we were 500 years ago.

Emissary wrote:In fact I think we are a far less healthy world now than we were 500 years ago.

WOW!!
I think you might want to spend some time and read up on that.

When it comes down to it, we're still gonna attach electrodes in their brains to find out how the brain works.

just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should. this is an example where legislation would be a good thing. with all the non-invasive neural imaging techniques available today (eeg/meg/fmri) theres absolutely no reason to invasively attach electrodes to another animals brain to find out how the human mind works.

leonard wrote:

When it comes down to it, we're still gonna attach electrodes in their brains to find out how the brain works.

just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should. this is an example where legislation would be a good thing. with all the non-invasive neural imaging techniques available today (eeg/meg/fmri) theres absolutely no reason to invasively attach electrodes to another animals brain to find out how the human mind works.

Are you volunteering?

Here are the options: Either we experiment on animals, or we experiment on people. Right now we do the smartest thing and experiment on animals first, then people.

P.S. most experiments use neural imaging techniques anyway. However, one needs electrodes to stimulate areas of the brain. No amount of imaging techniques are going to force targeted neurons to fire at will.

Emissary wrote:Cant say I agree with experimenting on animals. It somehow suggests that we are above them in some way. We are equals on the planet, and i see no reason why we should exploit them to artificially increase our life span. I'm a firm beliver that 90% of medicines do very little anyhow, they usually give the patient a psychological boost that helps them overcome the illness themselves. In fact I think we are a far less healthy world now than we were 500 years ago.

Is this some kind of plugin? Where do I download it from to see what the fuss is all about?

timwright wrote:Is this some kind of plugin? Where do I download it from to see what the fuss is all about?

Essentially, yes, it is about plugins. It's a match between PETA-People for the Ethical Treatment of Assholes- and those who are proponents of asshole probing. It appears the probing, or plugging in, if you wish, will continue despite pushes for legislative measures to limit the quantity and improve the quality of said probing within assholes.

thesmallisbeautiful wrote: The facts just don't agree with you (as they don't agree with a lot of the claims made to back up the "health benefits" of veganism)

Everything you said was invalidated basically by this aside. The basic fact is vegans statistically are healthier, and finding one or two examples of unhealthy vegans doesn't change that. Less chance of heart disease, obesity, cancer, strokes, arthritis, osteoporosis ..... the list is endless.

I have friends in animal research, my feelings are that it is necessary at some point in the process of testing new medicines. The sad and sick part is that like every area of research where your job is reliant on the process continuing, they simply overdo it, or ignore the fact that the tests have proven nothing. The result is studies go on for years longer than they need to in order to keep a facility running. This is the situation one of my friends study is in currently, he realizes that the study has proven nothing so far, and has resulted in years of animal testing with no end in sight. Like most areas of the government, charity organizations and other corruptible institutions, the animal testing industry could use a independent watchdog organization.

Homebelly wrote:

Emissary wrote:In fact I think we are a far less healthy world now than we were 500 years ago.

WOW!!
I think you might want to spend some time and read up on that.

Just because we live longer doesn't mean we are healthier. It would be interesting to compare things like cancer, asthma, diabetes, heart issues, lung disease with 500 years ago. of course we cant, so we automatically think we are healthier because we can prolong our decrepit lives a bit longer. The human mind is certainly less healthy now than it was at the beginning of civilisation.

@Android Bishop:

Why is it legal and ethical to do invasive experiments on monkeys but not on humans with severe mental impairments who have less cognitive and reasoning power than monkeys? Would you be happy to conduct such experiments (on humans) if it led to a cure for (e.g.) cancer?

I'm not taking sides on this one, but is there a list of advancements made directly from experimenting on animals?

I know there was a point in history when animal experiments were quintessential in the Making Women Attractive industry. I think we can all agree that is important.