Behringer BCR2000 Controller

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
radder
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Behringer BCR2000 Controller

Post by radder » Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:58 am

OK figured since there was a BCF thread, I'd start a BCR thread. Just got mine today, played with it a bit and I feel like a kid in a candy store over what all these new knobs and buttons should be assigned to.

32 hardware knobs, and 30 hardware buttons (8 on the push-encoders, 16 under them and 4 off on their own--which seems to suggest transport functions as their intent) for $169 US... damn that can't be possible. Wake me up ;)

The only problem I've had so far is when I enable Live's MIDI control output. It uses up a TON of CPU when you just tweak one knob. Causes crackles in audio output. Weird. Haven't noticed any real lack of functionality in the way I am using it when I turn control output off, though.

If anyone has any BCR2000 tips/tricks/pointers please share!
myspace.com/raddermusic || soundcloud.com/a-radder || Thinkpad R61 / 3GB RAM / Echo Audiofire 4

peeddrroo
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Post by peeddrroo » Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:03 am

hi fellow BCR user :wink:

here's a rather long sumary of my issues and troubles with the BCR:

ok, so firstly, i discovered that the bcr can't be used with Live's MIDI control output. on my unit, it causes the knobs to react much slower than when it's disconnected, i often get 2 LEDs to lit instead of 1 (i guess because of some feedback).
anyhow, it seems to be a L4 malfunction, so hopefully will be fixed soon.

my other worry was linked to the fact that each of my song is on a different live set, and bcr presets can't be remotely controled, and i don't want to have to change the preset according to a song during a live performance (staying with presets would also mean i'm limited to 32 songs).
so i decided that i would use one single preset, that would be the same for all songs. it's mainly CCs everywhere (i'll get back to it). the only trouble i have, is that there's no way to make the BCR recall its initial values automaticaly (maybe linked to the output bug?). and as there's no soft takeover in live, if i leave the knobs in their current position, when i'll touch them, it will bet a big mess. so my workaround is to have a MIDI channel in Live with it's MIDI OUT to the BCR, and on the first scene, a clip with all the CCs values set to the song's initial values (trough the enveloppe). so when i start the song, i'll see all the leds going to their initial values 'virtualy'.

another thing that annoys me, is that when you do such a thing, you see the knobs moving, but this doesn't change the parameter's value in Live. let me take an example: in one of my songs, i play with a cutoff freq, and when it's low, i start playing some Rhodes. i go through different scenes with a MIDI pedal control, and then at the end of my solo, i'm supposed to launch a scene where the cutoff freq sould be high but as i don't have any free hands to set it up, i don't know what to do. i can't either set it with enveloppe automation in Live, since the env sends relative values.
:arrow: so my question is: how to make Live make the BCR send some control values without me touching anything (but a scene launch button) :?:

and finaly, a little trick about the row of buttons: if you want them to lit when they're ON (like lit when a track is muted or when an effect is on), choose "2's comp" for the behaviour of the controler in Live.

last but not least: if someone can find a way to use one of these buttons to launch the recording of a clip AND have it lit when it's recording, let me know!

i hope i wasn't too annoying, just wanted to let you know my own experience with this machine that's really good, cheap, and makes L4 even more exciting to use (more of my tips to come soon).

bonomius
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Post by bonomius » Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:23 pm

i have a simple question about the bcr, for you already owners:
is it usb powered? Or does it need the ac power connected?
Thanks :D

peeddrroo
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Post by peeddrroo » Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:41 pm

you need to plug it to AC power

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:56 am

peedroo

first, thanks for all these details about the BCR - i don't have one but i'm trying to figure out if it's what i've been hoping for.javascript:emoticon(':?')

the question i have is, if you can't use remote-control output, and there's no soft takeover in live, then what's the new with this box, compared to standard fixed (0-127) knob boxes (i have control freak live).

and i'm a little confused when you say you're sending "initial values" with your midi clip envelope, since (as you've said later) live sends only relative values.

again, thanks for shedding some light if you have more time

Tick tock
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Post by Tick tock » Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:00 am

(wasn't logged in)

peedroo

first, thanks for all these details about the BCR - i don't have one but i'm trying to figure out if it's what i've been hoping for. :?

the question i have is, if you can't use remote-control output, and there's no soft takeover in live, then what's the new with this box, compared to standard fixed (0-127) knob boxes (i have control freak live).

and i'm a little confused when you say you're sending "initial values" with your midi clip envelope, since (as you've said later) live sends only relative values.

again, thanks for shedding some light if you have more time
G5 Quad, OSX 10.4.5, Live 5.0.3 and 5.2 beta, Presonus Firebox, BFD, DLX, 8Bit, Korg Legacy Collection

peeddrroo
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Post by peeddrroo » Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:10 am

Tick tock wrote:(wasn't logged in)

peedroo

first, thanks for all these details about the BCR - i don't have one but i'm trying to figure out if it's what i've been hoping for. :?

the question i have is, if you can't use remote-control output, and there's no soft takeover in live, then what's the new with this box, compared to standard fixed (0-127) knob boxes (i have control freak live).

and i'm a little confused when you say you're sending "initial values" with your midi clip envelope, since (as you've said later) live sends only relative values.

again, thanks for shedding some light if you have more time
well, what's new is the number of controls you have (32 knobs, 28 switches). hopefully the recalling of data will be available in a (soon to come?) Live4 update. but this unit has what it takes to do it. fingers crosse on this one.

for the 'initial' midi clip, it doesn't send values to the Live automation, but to the unit itself (with setting the MIDI OUT of this track to the BCR2000). that makes all the knobs and switches go to their initial state, then all you need is to move them a bit around this value so that the BCR will actually send the parameters values. a bit annoying, but at the same time, it enables you to see which knobs are assigned, and what they are asigned to (at least, try to remember it...)

hope this helps.
this unit is definitely a good (very good) value for money. very handy.

warabunga
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Post by warabunga » Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:31 pm

whats the deal guys?
really don't understand.. must be ALL windows related problems!
I don't have a SINGLE problem with this box...
values are correctly uptated in live and on the box with every parameter I've tried. I'm using USB mode 4 and I even have a second fader box (IBK 10Control) connected and even this one is correctly updated!!! EVEN if in live you can coose only one port for updating values!!! this is awasome and much more than I've expected for this little money!

get a mac :-)

PEACE!
--
macbook pro | Leopard | 2.33 Ghz | 3 Gig Ram | Lemur | Monome 256 | BCF/BCR2000 | Faderfox LX2
I'm Spoiled!

peeddrroo
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Location: France

Post by peeddrroo » Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:46 pm

that's interesting...
so, can you please confirm all this:
- the BCR is controlled via the 'control output' in Live's preferences
- all your BCR knobs are set to sending CCs
- you don't use the BCR's 'learn' function
- when you start a new set, all knobs will go straight to the last saved value (you don't need to click on the 'send update' command in the preferences)
- if you move a slider/knob in Live, the BCR knob will be updated
- you don't get a kind of feedback that slows the BCR down
- you're happy with your unit
- windows sucks

another point: can you make Live change one of parameters value, as if you were moving the knob, but without moving it? (like sending a message to the BCR so that it will turn the knob on its own, and Live will react to this)

thanks for your feedback, that will confirm that all this will be feasible in windows sooner or later!

Hans Schiffren

BCR2000 Firmware

Post by Hans Schiffren » Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:07 pm

Hi there,

i recently bought that unit and saw, that there is already a Firmware update at behringer.com available (1.05).

Does anyone know how to update the bcr since there is no sounddiver software available yet?

I'm using Macos X 10.3.4 and tried MIDI Monitor to ackomplish that task with no succes or even clue how to do that. behringer.com doesn't tell anthing.

Mmhh and thanx

peeddrroo
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Location: France

Post by peeddrroo » Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:13 pm

i did it using midi-ox (a free midi utility).
you have to download the .sys file (sysex) on behringer's site, and then send it to the BCR using midi-ox.
come back if you've got troubles with it.

Guest

doesn't work

Post by Guest » Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:10 pm

I'm on Macos X, so midi-ox does not work (Windows only). But i found a
Mac app called "SysExLibrarian"

http://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/

which should be able to send sysex files.

First i start the BCR2000 by holding down "Store" and "Learn" to
be in the "Load" Mode.
Second i send the file to Port 1 of the BCR, but... it seems not to arrive there; when i switch the unit off and on again it says "1.03" (Firmwareversion).


Do i have to plug in MIDI Cables, i tried it with USB Connection only?


I don't understand why Behringer does not document this procedere.


Anyway. thanx for help!

peeddrroo
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Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: France

Post by peeddrroo » Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:11 pm

i did it with only the USB cable plugged.
i didn't need to put the unit in "Load" mode, as soon as it received the sysex data it switched on its own.
behringer support on this procedure is nil. but they're supposed to released a software to edit the device, it should help.

maybe you can try to load the sysex in cubase or so and play it.

that's all i can say.

Guest

finally...

Post by Guest » Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:03 pm

Hey great, it worked the way you described it. Don't know why.

Thanx again!!

warabunga
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Post by warabunga » Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:49 pm

peeddrroo wrote:that's interesting...
so, can you please confirm all this:
- the BCR is controlled via the 'control output' in Live's preferences
- all your BCR knobs are set to sending CCs
- you don't use the BCR's 'learn' function
- when you start a new set, all knobs will go straight to the last saved value (you don't need to click on the 'send update' command in the preferences)
- if you move a slider/knob in Live, the BCR knob will be updated
- you don't get a kind of feedback that slows the BCR down
- you're happy with your unit
- windows sucks
well I can confirm several points:
- yes, windows sucks :twisted:
- I don't get a feedback thing (at least I'm not aware of it!) knobs move a little too slow for me, but I guess that's the way it is. they should have something like acceleration... I owned the BCF2000 and this unit had HEAVY feedback. lucky me I could change it for the precious BCR :-)
- yes, If I move a knob in live, it gets updated on the BCR and vice versa!
- when I start a new set, all the knobs are updated corectly on the BCR, BUT (!) only on ONE preset! this sucks, and I wasn't aware of that until I was performing on stage. had about a 10 minute break to know what was going on! embarrassing like hell!
- the BCR is controlled via the 'control output': YES! AND the thing I love most about this unit, you can even plug a second "updatable" device, and this unit is also controlled by the ONE control output. Thanks to USB mode 4 that merges!! absolutely fantastically!
- I don't use the learn function, no... only standard CC messages... there's one thing though (which I didn't really check intensively): I think that live doesn't destinguish between different midi channels... is this true??
- yeah, and I'm quite happy with the unit... I just had 4 concerts with it, and I must say it's not bad... well, one knob is already half broken... it turns a little hard... and in my opinion they could have thought a little harder about the design. e.g. show the on/off state of the push encoders with a led; change the buttons with the 4 group thing; and apparently the midi interface is not able to transmit midi clock. we've tried to synchronize 2 powerbooks, but it didn't work :-( well, and support is = 0! but in general it's the best you get for that money. I'd love to design the perfect controller for them at the same price ;-)

another point: can you make Live change one of parameters value, as if you were moving the knob, but without moving it? (like sending a message to the BCR so that it will turn the knob on its own, and Live will react to this)

haven't tried that one yet, and I don't see the point either, or I don't get your question...
:roll: travelling without moving (dune, my fav film!) :lol:
ahh, now I got it, maybe. let's say I controll the mixers volume w/ an envelope. yes, the knobs leds get updated...

well, hope this helps...
--
macbook pro | Leopard | 2.33 Ghz | 3 Gig Ram | Lemur | Monome 256 | BCF/BCR2000 | Faderfox LX2
I'm Spoiled!

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