am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
necho
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by necho » Fri May 08, 2009 4:17 pm

If I had a laptop and a live set, it would be great (if a little pricey).

But I have no use for it in the studio. None whatsoever.
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Angstrom
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by Angstrom » Fri May 08, 2009 4:26 pm

contakt321 wrote:
Angstrom wrote: Love
hate
  • 8 dead sliders = no use whatsoever.
  • a crossfader (which I never use), and in the worlds most awful position.
  • no little screens means I still must look at the laptop to try and make some logical connection between what these lights represent. Hey ... lets play the new scene called, um "red light"
I totally understand where you are coming from.

I also like the knobs for pans and sends, as well as the insta map to device.

I am no fanboy, I just wanted to talk about your dislikes - because I totally understand them.

*The reality is, having motorized faders would be totally awesome, would make this way more expensive.
*I agree the crossfader is in a weird spot, but I plan on using this to DJ and I bet a significant number of the people do too - they would get way to many complaints for not having one.
I think the screen thing is probably about cost too, but it would be awesome (wishlist sort of thing) to have a Novation like strip screen at the top.
As far as the faders go, I would actually prefer no faders to 'dead' faders. That's a cost saving right there. I think most people have some sort of 'midi mixer' solution already, and this APC-fader approach to a midi mixer does not even beat a Behringer BCR for functionality!, so that's not exactly great is it.
I wish that in future any company designing a controller does not do so in the spirit of "I suppose we ought to put some lame concession to mixing on there, so it looks like an all-in one device", because that is just a waste of time.
I would much prefer a device that does one thing very very well than several things badly.
Not every device has to be "entry level" FFS


On the subject of the crossfader, I understand the market drive to include such a thing (for people other than me)- but I think they have done it quite clumsily - I mean that positioning !
If you don't want it - it's right in your face
if you do want it - welcome to "pressing stop by mistake" land

On the subject of little screens - yep, a little expensive perhaps, but I think if we are to treat this APC device's intention as 'control live without looking at the laptop' then it's a worthwhile expense to avoid a compromised device. I mean - what does 'green light on lane one' actually tell us? Is it a drum fill or a yodeling sample?

Actually, at a consumer level I could buy a little programmable LCD for $9.99 USD, a larger one is $29 USD
http://www.matrixorbital.com/

So, lets ditch those useless faders and put that $1.50 saving towards a little screen or two!

BoimB son of BoB
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by BoimB son of BoB » Fri May 08, 2009 6:41 pm

Angstrom wrote:
contakt321 wrote:
Angstrom wrote: Love
hate
  • 8 dead sliders = no use whatsoever.
  • a crossfader (which I never use), and in the worlds most awful position.
  • no little screens means I still must look at the laptop to try and make some logical connection between what these lights represent. Hey ... lets play the new scene called, um "red light"
I totally understand where you are coming from.

I also like the knobs for pans and sends, as well as the insta map to device.

I am no fanboy, I just wanted to talk about your dislikes - because I totally understand them.

*The reality is, having motorized faders would be totally awesome, would make this way more expensive.
*I agree the crossfader is in a weird spot, but I plan on using this to DJ and I bet a significant number of the people do too - they would get way to many complaints for not having one.
I think the screen thing is probably about cost too, but it would be awesome (wishlist sort of thing) to have a Novation like strip screen at the top.
As far as the faders go, I would actually prefer no faders to 'dead' faders. That's a cost saving right there. I think most people have some sort of 'midi mixer' solution already, and this APC-fader approach to a midi mixer does not even beat a Behringer BCR for functionality!, so that's not exactly great is it.
I wish that in future any company designing a controller does not do so in the spirit of "I suppose we ought to put some lame concession to mixing on there, so it looks like an all-in one device", because that is just a waste of time.
I would much prefer a device that does one thing very very well than several things badly.
Not every device has to be "entry level" FFS


On the subject of the crossfader, I understand the market drive to include such a thing (for people other than me)- but I think they have done it quite clumsily - I mean that positioning !
If you don't want it - it's right in your face
if you do want it - welcome to "pressing stop by mistake" land

On the subject of little screens - yep, a little expensive perhaps, but I think if we are to treat this APC device's intention as 'control live without looking at the laptop' then it's a worthwhile expense to avoid a compromised device. I mean - what does 'green light on lane one' actually tell us? Is it a drum fill or a yodeling sample?

Actually, at a consumer level I could buy a little programmable LCD for $9.99 USD, a larger one is $29 USD
http://www.matrixorbital.com/

So, lets ditch those useless faders and put that $1.50 saving towards a little screen or two!
ma man! spot on

bog
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by bog » Sat May 09, 2009 9:31 pm

Angstrom wrote:As far as the faders go, I would actually prefer no faders to 'dead' faders. That's a cost saving right there. I think most people have some sort of 'midi mixer' solution already, and this APC-fader approach to a midi mixer does not even beat a Behringer BCR for functionality!, so that's not exactly great is it.
I wish that in future any company designing a controller does not do so in the spirit of "I suppose we ought to put some lame concession to mixing on there, so it looks like an all-in one device", because that is just a waste of time.
I would much prefer a device that does one thing very very well than several things badly.
Not every device has to be "entry level" FFS
So, lets ditch those useless faders and put that $1.50 saving towards a little screen or two!
Yeah, sometimes I wonder what Ableton would have put out if they had decided to collaborate with Native Instruments instead of Akai. Maschine built into Live! And it would have had velocity sensitive pads, multi-color LED clip matrix, Maschine's 2 LCDs and still would have been much smaller than APC40.

Angstrom
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by Angstrom » Sat May 09, 2009 9:34 pm

bog wrote:
Angstrom wrote:As far as the faders go, I would actually prefer no faders to 'dead' faders. That's a cost saving right there. I think most people have some sort of 'midi mixer' solution already, and this APC-fader approach to a midi mixer does not even beat a Behringer BCR for functionality!, so that's not exactly great is it.
I wish that in future any company designing a controller does not do so in the spirit of "I suppose we ought to put some lame concession to mixing on there, so it looks like an all-in one device", because that is just a waste of time.
I would much prefer a device that does one thing very very well than several things badly.
Not every device has to be "entry level" FFS
So, lets ditch those useless faders and put that $1.50 saving towards a little screen or two!
Yeah, sometimes I wonder what Ableton would have put out if they had decided to collaborate with Native Instruments instead of Akai. Maschine built into Live! And it would have had velocity sensitive pads, multi-color LED clip matrix, Maschine's 2 LCDs and still would have been much smaller than APC40.
I must say I really dont understand this confusion between Maschine and the APC. they as different as a piano and a drum kit.
So, saying "I wish this piano was more drummy", or "if only Gretsch had made this piano" just seem wrong wrongy wrong to me, and the people saying these things just seem like mad people.
Hey - I wish this knife was more spoony & I wish this car was more bike-like.

You are looking at it wrong.
It is not an MPC.

If Ableton decide to make a drum controller, I'm sure they will - right after they are finished releasing their monome with dials on.

and this freaky issue with the size is insane. If you could see what I used to tour with - 8 very large flightcases filled with 9 analogues, two controler keyboards, two drum machines & hardware sequencers, two computers and screens, 2 racks with samplers and effect units and a 32 channel desk. not to mention all the stands and cables. It filled one of these Image

and you freaks are crying about a measly 10cm !
please, I mean - words fail me.

bog
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by bog » Sat May 09, 2009 10:18 pm

No confusion. Just too excited about Maschine. :)
And I think the fact that Maschine is the first midi controller to be released that allows for navigating and launching Live's session view clip matrix, instead of APC40, makes them comparable. Not to mention that the software of Maschine itself is basically NI's own version of Live's session view, but with a dedicated controller with velocity sensitive pads AND the ability to record automation (unlike Live's session view). And it's still only on version 1 with lots of room to grow and mature. The 1.1 update just announced has already addressed most of the initial user requests.

I do think Akai midi controllers in general could have been designed to be more portable yet still have the same controls without taking away from usability. Akai could take a few cues from Korg and Novation. I also don't like that APC40 requires a power adapter.

o0o
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by o0o » Sat May 09, 2009 10:30 pm

true you can't compare the machines themselves but you can always compare what people want to do with them
and that is what it is all about, angstrom you're comparing the apc to a van full of equiptment anyway right :)






I like angstroms music.
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Angstrom
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by Angstrom » Sat May 09, 2009 10:58 pm

o0o wrote:true you can't compare the machines themselves but you can always compare what people want to do with them
and that is what it is all about, angstrom you're comparing the apc to a van full of equiptment anyway right :)
yes, but that van had both keyboards AND drum machines in.

if the drum machines were also my keyboards it would have been terrible.
Separate devices was much better

what I'm saying here is - I'd quite like to get both.
;)

MrYellow
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by MrYellow » Sun May 10, 2009 2:30 am

I hope NI and Ableton never collaborate.

NI are high CPU buggy garbage for the most part, while the Kore was a complete joke.

Some great sounds but cost in efficiency and stability isn't worth it.

One thing about the APC I don't understand, those backlit buttons aren't velocity sensitive are they?

-Ben

Geezus
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by Geezus » Sun May 10, 2009 2:36 am

MrYellow wrote: One thing about the APC I don't understand, those backlit buttons aren't velocity sensitive are they?

-Ben

No, they aren't. I really dont see what is so hard to understand about this. Those are not drum pads. They are clip triggers. The price of the unit would massively increase if they made the buttons velocity sensitive, which is a feature that isn't even remotely useful in the context of what they are designed to do in the first place.

nowtime
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by nowtime » Sun May 10, 2009 2:43 am

Geezus wrote:
MrYellow wrote: One thing about the APC I don't understand, those backlit buttons aren't velocity sensitive are they?

-Ben

No, they aren't. I really dont see what is so hard to understand about this. Those are not drum pads. They are clip triggers. The price of the unit would massively increase if they made the buttons velocity sensitive, which is a feature that isn't even remotely useful in the context of what they are designed to do in the first place.

Ridiculous. Playing the APC like a real instrument (drum machine/sampler) WHILE controlling Live at the same time? Not remotely useful? Yeah the price would increase but then we would ALL buy it!
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Tone Deft
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by Tone Deft » Sun May 10, 2009 2:47 am

:roll: it's not a drumpad controller, simple as that, doesn't matter how teh interweb people want to rant about it. get an mpd FFS.

the price would definitely go way up, that's a LOT of buttons to make velocity sensitive. come to think of it, it would be way too many drum sounds. how large of a multisampled drum kit would you want to play, or rather how big of one could your computer handle. also, the buttons would be too small to make a good drum controller.

it just doesn't make sense. it's simply a controller for Live, ranting about it doesn't change that.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

nowtime
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by nowtime » Sun May 10, 2009 2:51 am

I'm just tired of the FAILS in the groovebox / electronica hardware designs. Always compromising and nary a classic made.
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Tone Deft
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by Tone Deft » Sun May 10, 2009 2:54 am

yo man, it's not a groovebox either.

Thurs night I held one, saw it in action. it will let you play back a performance in Live without touching the keyboard or mouse.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

Tone Deft
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Re: am i the only one who isn't excited about the apc40

Post by Tone Deft » Sun May 10, 2009 3:06 am

FaderFox - classic
BCR2000 - classic. it's been out for years and is still amazing bang for the buck
Lemur, Dexter - classics
Octopus - classic
http://www.genoqs.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=48
monome - classic


all debatable but there are more than enough options for controllers these days. lots of fine toys. I'd rather have 3-4 things that compliment each other than one, they'll NEVER make one to satisfy everyone, we all have such different work flows.

then there's Moldover and his tweaked out customized rig. make your own damn controller!!
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

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