Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
drako
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by drako » Wed May 13, 2009 3:02 pm

mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:Also,
I remember hearing that Live adds your plugin buffer size per vst/au plugin to your latency. So If your using lots of third parties you'll have more latency. Maybe someone else can confirm or deny this???
I have it when using my uads, it's a pain to work considering the latency you get.
Have to swith all off and the delaycompensation in order to play some notes in.

TITBAG
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by TITBAG » Wed May 13, 2009 9:30 pm

as i have said many times, i can easily detect 1ms latency. live can FUCK OFF if it cant give me 1ms roundtrip

joeyfivecents
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by joeyfivecents » Wed May 13, 2009 9:46 pm

the latency is horrible. WTF?
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MrYellow
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by MrYellow » Thu May 14, 2009 12:08 am

Well..... I've been experimenting with Live8 vrs Live6 and as yet can't find a reason to upgrade.

Everything that would be easier in Live8 is still possible in Live6 with just a lil creativity.

Time-signatures on scene launch is the only feature that I can think of that is really new.

-Ben

leedsquietman
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by leedsquietman » Thu May 14, 2009 12:55 am

err. drum racks, sidechaining, slicing, rex file support, group tracks, cross fades (even though rudimentary) on arrange, limiter and multiband dynamics, etc, etc.

I started with Live at Live 6 and of course I loved it and still do, but Live 7 and now 8 brought quite a bit extra for the DAW type producer to the table, as opposed to those who DJ and/or mess around with loops. Live 8 is almost a complete DAW AND Live performance solution now, as opposed to being just a Live performance solution.

Although it definately depends on your workflow as to how much benefit Live 8 give you.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

zerocrossing
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by zerocrossing » Thu May 14, 2009 1:01 am

Has anyone heard a peep from Ableton about this?

MrYellow
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by MrYellow » Thu May 14, 2009 1:10 am

leedsquietman wrote:err. drum racks, sidechaining, slicing, rex file support, group tracks, cross fades (even though rudimentary) on arrange, limiter and multiband dynamics, etc, etc.
* Drum racks are just a midi mapping really it seems, nothing that can't be done in other ways.
* Side-chaining is possible in Live6, VSTs can be fed audio/midi from other tracks or VST.
* Slicing is possible in Live6.
* Rex File support is possible via Rewire to Reason (while current Rex support in Live8 lacks proper MIDI features, more control with Reason).
* Group tracks, in Live6 I just make them smaller and call them similar things, put a blank track between the groups, has worked great.
* Crossfades, that's something a DJ uses right?
* Many low-latency limiters are available as free VSTs.
* Have Wavearts Multidynamics which is much better layout to Live's multiband compressor.

So I can do all those things in Live6.......
Why would I need Live8 (which seems to be slower) to do them?

Honestly I'm having a real hard time finding anything new in Live7 or 8 which can't be done in Live6, or isn't done better by Live6.

-Ben

solar28
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by solar28 » Thu May 14, 2009 2:38 am

Tone Deft wrote:
:roll: another great post n00btime.

actually I read
"should decided "

as

"decided"

bad writing, bad reading.


still
Using Logic with the same project with the same plugins/instruments I will get no latency and less than half of CPU load...
is bullshit because there's ALWAYS latency. this is a lie as is his description of bypassing a limiter to avoid its latency?? what a crock of shit.
I have noticed myself a bit more latency/cpu usage as well as CPU spikes that I don't get in latest version of 7 when opening projects between the two. I don't believe this poster is lying just because he wrote ambiguously. I read that he means that he doesn't get the same latency in Logic 8 as in Live. He should have wrote: I get no noticable latency in logic like I get in Live.

leedsquietman
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by leedsquietman » Thu May 14, 2009 7:14 pm

Mr.Yellow, yes there are some workarounds, although it can be a fair bit of extra hassle. workarounds for sidechaining are especially a PITA, and freeware devices vary in effectiveness. rex support via rewiring Reason is another not very convenient and CPu burning workaround.

However, I get your point and agree to a degree, I haven't updated to Live 8 yet, partially because of the upgrade cost, but partially because there is less need for me. I wasn't talking about the DJ crossfader, I was talking about crossfades on audio clips in arrangement view, which was lacking before. It's not always a huge thing, but 2 overlapping clips can be placed on the same audio track in arrangement and then a crossfade tool is used to fade one in while the other fades out. Live 8 has this albeit in a limited fashion as Cubase and other programs allow you to set crossfade curves from a whole template full at the click of a button etc.
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Tone Deft
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by Tone Deft » Thu May 14, 2009 7:33 pm

solar28 wrote:I don't believe this poster is lying just because he wrote ambiguously. I read that he means that he doesn't get the same latency in Logic 8 as in Live. He should have wrote: I get no noticable latency in logic like I get in Live.
disagree. it set off my BS detector. if he's capable of signing up for an account he's capable of watching his writing, that's all we can judge him by. dunno why you're playing nanny here.

to say he gets ZERO latency in Logic is just a dumb thing to write.

feel free to correct all my posts while you're at it. wtf? :roll:

it's still in early Live 8 release. remember that when you compare it to Live 7. Live 8 still usable for me.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

leedsquietman
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by leedsquietman » Thu May 14, 2009 7:52 pm

yes, there is no such thing as zero latency, even in a protools HD tdm DSP chip environment. There is low or even ultra low latency but no such thing as ZERO latency.

Typically I find Live to be OK latency wise, I typically need to run it one buffer setting above Cubase, i.e. if I can run Cubase at 128 samples, Live runs OK at 256 samples, which is still useable for 99% of tasks. The gapless audio engine in Live, which allows you to drop in samples on the fly which are auto beatmatched etc, is almost certainly a factor in this - try dropping in a different tempo audio sample/clip into Logic or Cubase when it's running an intense project and see if it just plays it in seamlessly - very likely, it will glitch and drop out for a second or two before playing back.

Most latency issues are down to computer performance and audio card settings anyway, rather than choice of DAW.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

leedsquietman
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by leedsquietman » Thu May 14, 2009 7:54 pm

one more thing UAD plugins are supposed to be used post recording as mixdown or mastering plugins, they induce quite a bit of latency. they are not designed to be used as tracking plugins or for live performance on the fly - ditto Liquid Miz and other DSP based card or firewire plugin solutions.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

Tone Deft
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by Tone Deft » Thu May 14, 2009 7:59 pm

in case nobody's mentioned it lately, you write good posts leeds, thanks for your contributions.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

MrYellow
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by MrYellow » Thu May 14, 2009 11:45 pm

leedsquietman wrote:yes, there is no such thing as zero latency, even in a protools HD tdm DSP chip environment. There is low or even ultra low latency but no such thing as ZERO latency.
One exception to this that I've only just discovered how to use properly.....

I have a RME Multiface which features zero-latency mixing on the card itself,
so inputs can be directly routed and mixed to outputs without going through
the buffers. It turns out this is a feature accessible through ASIO, software
that supports it will tell the soundcard to route the input directly to the
output used. The routing is all automatic based on what outputs you're using
and what tracks/inputs are selected for recording. Fader movements and track
activations in your DAW are sent to the internal mixer for true zero-latency
monitoring.

Samplitude supports it but I'm not sure about other DAWs,
Live6 at least doesn't seem to have support for it.

-Ben

dinaiz
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Re: Huge Latency diff. between 7 & 8

Post by dinaiz » Fri May 15, 2009 3:57 am

leedsquietman wrote:Most latency issues are down to computer performance and audio card settings anyway, rather than choice of DAW.
Very true. Actually I think he means that live 8 is more CPU hungry than Live 7, so he needs a bigger buffer, which induces more lattency. At least, that would make sense

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