APC 40 Step Sequencer Sensation !

[Lord Kahn]

If I'm missing out on some super awesome Max tutorial site, then please someone fill me in. I want to learn more, but all I've found are 1 or two basic tuts, then BAM! The rest involve building a patch that looks like the world's largest circuit diagram. lol.

The best tutorial is the one included with Max/MSP itself. You can download and use MAX for a month for free to try it out, this should be enough time to work through the tutorials and do the exercises (that's important, you won't learn unless you actually do what's being talked about).

It's not really that hard to learn if you understand how to hook up studio equipment (at least I think it isn't)

[Android Bishop]

If I'm missing out on some super awesome Max tutorial site, then please someone fill me in. I want to learn more, but all I've found are 1 or two basic tuts, then BAM! The rest involve building a patch that looks like the world's largest circuit diagram. lol.

The best tutorial is the one included with Max/MSP itself. You can download and use MAX for a month for free to try it out, this should be enough time to work through the tutorials and do the exercises (that's important, you won't learn unless you actually do what's being talked about).

It's not really that hard to learn if you understand how to hook up studio equipment (at least I think it isn't)

+1

The included MAX tutorials are, by far, the best learning materials of any software product on earth. Brilliantly designed, covers everything at just the right pace, and all located in ACTUAL MAX patches designed for you to play with and do exercises with. That's why you dont see MAX tutorials anywhere, because it comes with the best ones imaginable.

[Angstrom]

If I'm missing out on some super awesome Max tutorial site, then please someone fill me in. I want to learn more, but all I've found are 1 or two basic tuts, then BAM! The rest involve building a patch that looks like the world's largest circuit diagram. lol.

The best tutorial is the one included with Max/MSP itself. You can download and use MAX for a month for free to try it out, this should be enough time to work through the tutorials and ...

Sadly - it is not enough time to familiarise oneself with the app. Sure - if you are on the Dole or are a music tech student then it's possible - but not for me.
For everyone in the real world the fiction that 30 days is equivalent to 724 hours of access to Max is just ludicrous. The Max demo equals just 6 hours of access to max.

This is my number one problem with Max and why I have never bought it.
I have attempted to test Max 3 times since it was invented. The furthest I have ever got within the time period is to about Lesson 6.

Simple reason : my life is divided equally between : making music, working, programming/testing new audio personal software , socialife, sleeping.

So max testing slots into the 'programming/testing' segment (that's one fifth of my time). But if life intervenes, and it will - then
Essentially what happens is this:
day 1 : download Max demo, open it up and rummage around, set up the preferences etc. open lesson 1, tinker around a bit
day 2: client rings me up with urgent problem to solve, solve problem all day until I fall asleep
Day 3: new job comes in, I am feeling poor, start investigating new job, Make some music, fall asleep
Day 4: client with a problem and client with new job want a meeting, horror ensues
Day 5: writing specification documents, make some music to forget about hell of specification documents
Day 6: meetings and specification documents. open Max demo, re-do lesson 1, open lesson 2, feel sleepy - go to bed
Day7: start coding client site
Day 8: weekend, see family, rest brain
Day 9, do some music , think about Max, girlfriend arrives. Max forgotten
Day 10: specification documents and coding, meetings, music, open Max lesson 2, then lesson 1 to revise, read documentations
Day 11: meetings with clients, coding, girl time, making music
Day 12 ... etc, etc
Day 13: Max lesson 3
...
Day 28: open Max Lesson 6
Day 29 :go to visit sick relative, drive a long distance
Day 30: Max demo times out


So, once again - the choice is what ? Download a crack to see what happens beyond "Bang play a note" , or do I just forget about it?

Well, I've not downloaded a crack, and Cycling provide no option for me to test it again until Max 6 comes out. Which will be in about 3 years.

So no, the demo period is not enough time.
I can really see why people get cracks of this stuff.

[Android Bishop]

There is no crack for v.5
You're out of luck in that department

[Angstrom]

well, it goes against the grain to get a crack, as I said.
But I want these software manufacturers to know that I am the target market, and I haven't bought it. I am someone who is very, very interested in making audio software, but have not been able to test this software beyond the very, very basics.

I am not going to buy expensive software if I don't know what it does for me.
http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.p ... msg_139558

I bought SynthMaker instead, simply because I could install it, it worked straight away and it had much better demo terms.

I simply cannot say what I will be doing in the next 30 days.

I get a chance to try a Max demo once every 3 years. At that time I must guess "will a client ring me up with a big job, or will anyone die?" I make a gamble. so far it has not paid off. I look forward to 2011 when I can try the Max demo once again.

[Android Bishop]

well, it goes against the grain to get a crack, as I said.
But I want these software manufacturers to know that I am the target market, and I haven't bought it. I am someone who is very, very interested in making audio software, but have not been able to test this software beyond the very, very basics.

I am not going to buy expensive software if I don't know what it does for me.
http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.p ... msg_139558

I bought SynthMaker instead, simply because I could install it, it worked straight away and it had much better demo terms.

I think you should email cycling74 your concerns, as you make a valid point and hopefully they'll take it into consideration in the future. I mean a month with a synth or something is fine, but something like MAX/MSP takes a considerably longer peroid of time to "get into" as its learning curve is rather steep.

[Angstrom]

I think you should email cycling74 your concerns, as you make a valid point and hopefully they'll take it into consideration in the future. I mean a month with a synth or something is fine, but something like MAX/MSP takes a considerably longer peroid of time to "get into" as its learning curve is rather steep.

I just don't believe they would pay attention to my point of view, but I'll do it anyway as it's been annoying me for at least 8 years.

The majority of people I know who use Max have either learned it at University, on a dedicated course, or have been given NFR versions.
There must be plenty of people like me who have jobs and full lives and so the time in the day for exploring new products is minimal.

[Acid303]

Since nearly all the focus on the APC seems to be directed towards this grid control and sequencing, shouldn't akai have followed suit with monome and livid and at least put in 64 buttons? Wouldn't those wanting to step-sequence midi notes and trigger clips be better off with monome or ohm64?

[Android Bishop]

I think you should email cycling74 your concerns, as you make a valid point and hopefully they'll take it into consideration in the future. I mean a month with a synth or something is fine, but something like MAX/MSP takes a considerably longer peroid of time to "get into" as its learning curve is rather steep.

I just don't believe they would pay attention to my point of view, but I'll do it anyway as it's been annoying me for at least 8 years.

The majority of people I know who use Max have either learned it at University, on a dedicated course, or have been given NFR versions.
There must be plenty of people like me who have jobs and full lives and so the time in the day for exploring new products is minimal.

They'll DEFINITELY never pay attention to you if you never even bother to send the message in the first place. ideas are like viruses, or seeds. Infect their mind with the idea. It may not be enough to grow large enough to overtake their established ideas, but at least the seed will have been planted.

[LoopStationZebra]

Angstrom, great insights as usual. Spot on with the time breakdown, lol.

I think there's a lot of Max/MSP tinkerers. Folks with a somewhat respectable (if very basic) knowledge of the tool seem to be able to create some interesting reverb or delay plugs or nice filters; but nothing that you can't already find out of the 10,000 reverb or delay plugs available these days. It's gotta be cool to create your own, so I'm not downplaying that aspect at all. But if all I'll be able to create (or download) is a bunch of standard effects, it will be hard to justify the cash spent. Hell, CamelSpace is one of the most powerful yet basic plugs I've found. It's deceptively simple, yet can get me an enormous amount of basic effects in many different configurations. I really don't need more reverb. I'm DROWNING in fucking reverb. hahaha.

I know others disagree, and claim that the learning curve in Max is very low, but I doubt it for the innovative stuff. I'll be very curious indeed to see just how many new and innovative plugs get created by members of this forum. I've no doubt that there's going to be about 1000 new sweep filters in the first week of release. But how many really cool and flexible and EASY TO PROGRAM AND USE step sequencers?

There's a LOT of guys talking about how they can't wait to create these awesome new MIDI routing tools. That they are going to run the MIDI from one track into a Max plug and that certain CCs will trigger an oscillator in another plug located on a different track and when that frequency hits this range then the world's greatest analog synth plug that they've created will start playing and on the 4th beat of the 10th measure the entire song tempo will be cut in half for the next 8 beats and then a resampling track will kick in and start recording and the whole process will repeat until they hit a low B on their 5 string bass. Or something like that. I get an enormous headache just thinking about it.

We shall see how some of those big dreams will pan out! I'm wishing them well and all the creativity the routing Gods can bestow!

[LoopStationZebra]

Will there be some kind of 'Download Station' hosted at Ableton? For people to post their Max creations?

[Tone Deft]

Will there be some kind of 'Download Station' hosted at Ableton? For people to post their Max creations?

if there is there will be a pay-for-storage site at Ableton (a guess) and a plethora of free places users store their creations.

also, max/msp patches can be saved as text files which can be pasted into threads (for example) and copied by anyone into their own patch.

[scott nathaniel]

well, it goes against the grain to get a crack, as I said.
But I want these software manufacturers to know that I am the target market, and I haven't bought it. I am someone who is very, very interested in making audio software, but have not been able to test this software beyond the very, very basics.

I am not going to buy expensive software if I don't know what it does for me.
http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.p ... msg_139558

I bought SynthMaker instead, simply because I could install it, it worked straight away and it had much better demo terms.

I simply cannot say what I will be doing in the next 30 days.

I get a chance to try a Max demo once every 3 years. At that time I must guess "will a client ring me up with a big job, or will anyone die?" I make a gamble. so far it has not paid off. I look forward to 2011 when I can try the Max demo once again.

Hey, try Pure Data. It's conceptually the same as Max/MSP. It was created by Miller Puckette, the same man who created Max. It's free and if you like Pure Data, you'll like Max. Get the extended version for whichever is your Os. There are examples and tutorials and help files and a forum, blah,blah,blah. But, seriously, try pd-- that's what I'm playing around with because, like you, I'm not ready to shell out $800 for Max/MSP/Jitter until I see the depth of M4L

[Angstrom]

There must be plenty of people like me who have jobs and full lives and so the time in the day for exploring new products is minimal.

They'll DEFINITELY never pay attention to you if you never even bother to send the message in the first place. ideas are like viruses, or seeds. Infect their mind with the idea. It may not be enough to grow large enough to overtake their established ideas, but at least the seed will have been planted.

I just sent them a big email on the subject to info@cycling

it's a bit tl;dr;
but who knows they may read it.

[Android Bishop]

There must be plenty of people like me who have jobs and full lives and so the time in the day for exploring new products is minimal.

They'll DEFINITELY never pay attention to you if you never even bother to send the message in the first place. ideas are like viruses, or seeds. Infect their mind with the idea. It may not be enough to grow large enough to overtake their established ideas, but at least the seed will have been planted.

I just sent them a big email on the subject to info@cycling

it's a bit tl;dr;
but who knows they may read it.

Here's hoping.

just as an aside (since you kinda brought it up), I'm starting to notice that a concept I've learned by playing the game of Go applies everywhere in life, and that concept is that the thing that accomplishes the most with the smallest amount of energy is the most powerful. I'm trying to make an effort to "say" the most with the fewest words in conversations now. Same goes for "doing" things too. Like in Live, either I can separately automate like 4 different parameters, or I can assign them all to one macro nob or put some of them on an lfo or something and I'll get the same amount of movement with fewer effort on my part.

Just a little philosophical observation that one can apply if one so chooses.