[5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
hoffman2k
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by hoffman2k » Wed May 20, 2009 10:31 pm

Rave wrote:OK, the talking to adults approach failed here.

Anyone that posts after this is gay and takes it up the arse hard and nasty :lol: and no it ain't wishful thinking on your part!
Thats the second line on my business card. Right next to "world's second greatest lover".

b0unce
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by b0unce » Wed May 20, 2009 10:40 pm

hoffman2k wrote:
b0unce wrote: But I have encountered a copy-protection related bug with Ableton before, on live 6 - which wasn't fixed at all.
b0unce wrote:In my earlier comment I said 'Imagine', you didn't take it as literally as you thought....My point was that there are WORSE copy-protection bugs out there. I didn't think my post was ambiguous.
So are you saying there's a reproducible way to trigger this message in the current version of Live that has been there since Live 6?
Sorry, what ?
b0unce wrote:
epiphanius wrote:
If this is true today, it certainly was NOT true last year. I have had this with Live 7 (6?), and am not in the habit of modifying executables.
... I have encountered a copy-protection related bug with Ableton before, on live 6 - which wasn't fixed at all.
Epiphanius says he's experienced this before, he mentions live7 and live6 with a question mark.
My comment was in reference to live6, merely stating ...yes - in live6 I did also experience a bug relating to copy-protection (of .nki libraries) which was 100% Ableton's issue to resolve (as they admit/ted), but - unfunnily enough it was never actually resolved at all in live6.
Just food for thought, really. Of course for the whole year I was told it would be fixed in a future update...just how much into the future I could never have guessed. It was fixed in live 7.01
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hoffman2k
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by hoffman2k » Wed May 20, 2009 11:16 pm

b0unce wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:
b0unce wrote: But I have encountered a copy-protection related bug with Ableton before, on live 6 - which wasn't fixed at all.
b0unce wrote:In my earlier comment I said 'Imagine', you didn't take it as literally as you thought....My point was that there are WORSE copy-protection bugs out there. I didn't think my post was ambiguous.
So are you saying there's a reproducible way to trigger this message in the current version of Live that has been there since Live 6?
Sorry, what ?
b0unce wrote:
epiphanius wrote:
If this is true today, it certainly was NOT true last year. I have had this with Live 7 (6?), and am not in the habit of modifying executables.
... I have encountered a copy-protection related bug with Ableton before, on live 6 - which wasn't fixed at all.
Epiphanius says he's experienced this before, he mentions live7 and live6 with a question mark.
My comment was in reference to live6, merely stating ...yes - in live6 I did also experience a bug relating to copy-protection (of .nki libraries) which was 100% Ableton's issue to resolve (as they admit/ted), but - unfunnily enough it was never actually resolved at all in live6.
Just food for thought, really. Of course for the whole year I was told it would be fixed in a future update...just how much into the future I could never have guessed. It was fixed in live 7.01
Oh yeah. Now I remember. The NKI mess, if that went a little smoother you'd be spreading rainbows :D
They recently released a new Live 6 though. Moot point but it probably includes that fix.
Better late than never.

Still, this is exactly why developers don't (or in this case shouldn't) give an ETA on bug fixes.
The same thing happened with Wacom support, where an Abe thought he had a fix, got peoples hopes up and eventually wasn't able to get it all working until a few weeks ago.

And its not uniquely to the Abes. Take Audiorealism for example. They have an excellent synth called ABL Pro that could use a teensy update. And a fix was coming.. 2 years ago. Meanwhile the developer started focusing on the iphone and something with wrong with his code backups or something preventing him from updating that synth.

And don't get me started on getting Roland to do a software fix...
Anyway, not arguing here. I thought you still had an outstanding bug in this department but read that wrong.
At least they fixed your bug. And I know you'd like to point out that you had to pay for that upgrade, you would have upgraded anyway.
Those p0unds don't spend themselves :lol:

dom
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by dom » Wed May 20, 2009 11:28 pm

epiphanius wrote:"you should really be concerned what is happening on your machine in general and messing with the content of your files"

Sorry, Dom but I find your post to be both patronising and disturbing - enough so that I am now seriously reconsidering the upgrade to Live 8. It's one thing for there to be such a stupid error message, another for Ableton to respond in this manner, rather than addressing the problem - preferably by getting rid of pace.
I'm sorry if you think my answer is patronising or disturbing, i wrote it from a completely technical point of view.
It is my job to respond to this technical problem and explain reasons for it happening and it is Carl's job to address the problem - that's what we're currently doing.

Regarding Pace: What do you mean? We never made use of Pace and don't plan to do. Where did you get that from? Misleading Pace discussions on the forum?
epiphanius wrote: "actually there's only one way to trigger that message: to modify the live executable itself."

If this is true today, it certainly was NOT true last year. I have had this with Live 7 (6?), and am not in the habit of modifying executables. The message itself is inaccurate and annoying - as was asked upthread, what business is it of ableton to worry about copyright violations?
How can you be sure that the executable was not modified? That's the whole story. It was exactly the same with previous versions.
Obviously nearly nobody would try to edit the program on own purpose.
That's why i wrote you should be concerned about malware and harddisk problems.
If you should ever run into this problem and if you're a bit into geeky stuff just calculate and compare a md5 hash from your installed version and the freshly downloaded version and you know for sure if they files are identical or not - technically safe, without any of my assumptions.

And why should we worry? Again, this is not about pirated mp3s, plugins etc. like some people always like to throw in from time to time in those threads - this is only about Live's copy protection itself.
epiphanius wrote: And you state later in thread that something else entirely (warmverb) in fact triggered the message. Not feeling very good about support now.

/reads Carl's post

Better.
Carl says exactly the same, because this is the first guess about what is happening: a misbehaving plugin might modify data that does belong to Live while it is running and therefore triggers the message. And this might be totally random. In this case even the checksum of the file of the harddisk would not shed any light at what is happening.

Regarding all the other posts: Again, could we please keep this thread free from personal fights and stick to the topic? PMs are a perfect tool for that, trust me! Thanks.

Dom
ableton support team
support@ableton.com

john doe by choice
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by john doe by choice » Wed May 20, 2009 11:43 pm

b0unce wrote:dunno what his previous profile was, but he's only been this butt-hurt since I pointed out he was an ingrate in one of his OT threads. The one where his bogus family neglected to care for their Uncle (or some other relative), and when he finally died he left his hard-earned scrilla to the carer instead. Life's tough. As much as you're a petulant little shit John Doe, I still don't wish your Uncle's fate on you. Although, if it does happen - I would say you'd be fully entitled to leave your life's worth, all $68, to whatever immigrant your kids hire to wipe your ass.
This is only one of the reasons I don't care for your bullshit, and it's wrong anyway, and anyone who reads that thread can see it:

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=111382

Nowhere in that thread does it say anything about how my family treated my aunt, nor my opinion of them one way or the other, an opinion which is nonexistent because I don't really know any of them. It also doesn't say in there that the family that I do not know neglected my aunt, it merely said that she didn't want to live in a nursing home and needed a caretaker - nothing in there about the caretaker being the only person to take care of her, nothing about my family neglecting her 24/7. Tell me, are you rich enough to quit your job to take care of your elderly family members full time, 24 hours a day, through the last decade of their life? I don't know anyone that could pull that off - your bullshit posts in that thread are based on assumptions, fiction, and a deep-seated desire to insult people, nothing more, and that thread proves it.
b0unce wrote:
john doe by choice wrote: *repetitive gibberish that's already been addressed*

Again, you should read above, he was telling you (much as he's told crash) to stop making uneducated statements about technical aspects of Live. Also, no clutching at straws, I just see from your post history that you roll like that.
seriously - take a deep breath - look back at the posts, and actually see me do what Dom asked me to do. And see where you do the complete opposite. I feel I've addressed your concerns, should you raise anything else worthwhile I'll try my best not to call in to question your mental health in my reply.
You're wrong there, too - nowhere do I make comment about technical aspects of Abletons copy protection or anything else, which is what Dom asked you to quiet down about, so there is no seeing where I do the complete opposite of what Dom asked, since it doesn't exist.

And as for you questioning my mental health, such questions mean nothing from someone whose obvious disability is getting along with others - you rarely start your own threads, forsaking that for insulting people in theirs - an obvious theme to anyone who decides to view your posts.

john doe by choice
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by john doe by choice » Wed May 20, 2009 11:44 pm

And out of respect for Dom and Ableton, I'm done with this thread - my point is easily made, and proven, and I'm not here to insult people or fight, unlike some.

b0unce
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by b0unce » Thu May 21, 2009 12:43 am

john doe by choice wrote:
b0unce wrote:dunno what his previous profile was, but he's only been this butt-hurt since I pointed out he was an ingrate in one of his OT threads. The one where his bogus family neglected to care for their Uncle (or some other relative), and when he finally died he left his hard-earned scrilla to the carer instead. Life's tough. As much as you're a petulant little shit John Doe, I still don't wish your Uncle's fate on you. Although, if it does happen - I would say you'd be fully entitled to leave your life's worth, all $68, to whatever immigrant your kids hire to wipe your ass.
This is only one of the reasons I don't care for your bullshit, and it's wrong anyway, and anyone who reads that thread can see it:

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=111382

Nowhere in that thread does it say anything about how my family treated my aunt, nor my opinion of them one way or the other, an opinion which is nonexistent because I don't really know any of them. It also doesn't say in there that the family that I do not know neglected my aunt, it merely said that she didn't want to live in a nursing home and needed a caretaker - nothing in there about the caretaker being the only person to take care of her, nothing about my family neglecting her 24/7. Tell me, are you rich enough to quit your job to take care of your elderly family members full time, 24 hours a day, through the last decade of their life? I don't know anyone that could pull that off - your bullshit posts in that thread are based on assumptions, fiction, and a deep-seated desire to insult people, nothing more, and that thread proves it.
After reading between the lines. The aunt was on your father's side. Your father is already passed away, and your mother doesn't keep in touch with auntie or that side of the family. So, what...zero or close to zero contact with auntie and her side of the family from you, your bro and mom? Cool. Obviously you deserve every penny.
I never said the neglect was 24/7 .... but there was enough distance there for someone else to form a bond with auntie - and what a surprise, it's the person who actually looks after them. Heaven forbid. You see it as taking advantage, what I see is a bunch of petulant piggies climbing over each other to stick their snout in the trough. quote - "When someone you love is getting on in years and making a will, it is in your best interest to talk them into giving power of attorney over to their family" LOL...someone you love ? someone you LOVE? ...right, ya - anyways - when someone you LOVE is getting on it's in your best interest to be around, and do your best just to be there into their dying day. Your fiscal priorities are repugnant, and offend my sensibilities. Power of attorney my arse.

Anyways - that's what happens when you say something on the net. Some people agree with you and sympathise, some people think you're swine. Sorry, but did I miss the ableton club meeting that concluded all live users are supposed to agree and sympathise with every other live user ? Did it also conclude that every live user is righteous and unbiased in their recounting of real-life woes? I must have, only in the last week johnisfaster was bitching about his father spending his own money, from his own business, that he owns the deeds to, that john is just a glorified manager of. And yet...there were queues of people lining up to share a tear.

My opinion.


If you're too sensitive for anything but wanton ego-massage, and the unquestioned faith in what you say just because you use Live...... might I suggest you DON'T air your personal woes in the general forum. Not that you shouldn't be allowed, but because disagreeing with you SHOULD be allowed.

John Doe by Choice wrote:
b0unce wrote: seriously - take a deep breath - look back at the posts, and actually see me do what Dom asked me to do. And see where you do the complete opposite. I feel I've addressed your concerns, should you raise anything else worthwhile I'll try my best not to call in to question your mental health in my reply.
You're wrong there, too - nowhere do I make comment about technical aspects of Abletons copy protection or anything else, which is what Dom asked you to quiet down about, so there is no seeing where I do the complete opposite of what Dom asked, since it doesn't exist.
? wow, I'm nearly amazed. Ok...one more time, for good measure. Dom asked me not to pursue my 'technical' question for fear of 'heating' the discussion. I respectfully disagreed with his reasoning, but did what he asked. So, hopefully for the final time, I DID do what Dom asked in dropping the question, and you DIDN'T do what Dom asked by intentionally 'heating' the discussion with your drama, despite me also asking you to take it somewhere else - or ignore me. So, I'm right. ...I've only been continuing in this thread because of your insistence.
John Doe by Choice wrote: And as for you questioning my mental health, such questions mean nothing from someone whose obvious disability is getting along with others - you rarely start your own threads, forsaking that for insulting people in theirs - an obvious theme to anyone who decides to view your posts.
meh...I don't need to point the finger at other forum members. But there's fingers to be pointed, so get off your high horse regarding my mostly OT contributions.
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b0unce
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by b0unce » Thu May 21, 2009 12:54 am

hoffman2k wrote:And I know you'd like to point out that you had to pay for that upgrade, you would have upgraded anyway.
Those p0unds don't spend themselves :lol:
Man, had a nice concise reply for your post but lost it due to addressing the gold-digger.
Anyways - in short, no way I would have upgraded as an early-adopter...I had actually figured out the whole early-adopter thing from version 5, the 'on-the-fly looping' bug...that wasn't so 'on-the-fly' with the looping (it cut them short) and took ages to fix. Although It was live6 that really taught me about the yearly upgrade business model (the .nki bug that was, essentially, never fixed. Realising that stabilising the current version was going on whilst coding a new one - all in one year? conflict of interests, no thanks). But anyways, nowadays I've completely transcended the stability BS, and I just upgrade to X.15 when Y.01 is around the corner. I still pay my way, but I get a better product for the same money. Albeit a year later than everyone else.
I'm not bleeding edge, SESSION VIEW is the main draw for me, the major reasons for me to upgrade were macintel support (5.2) , dualcore support & a macintel multisampler (6) ...SAMPLER was the only macintel multisampler at the time.

:D
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CarlSeleborg
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by CarlSeleborg » Thu May 21, 2009 9:40 am

Fellows,

This thread is getting disturbingly far from helping us
solve the problem, which we take very seriously, and as Dom
said we're working on it. But because these copy-protection
violations are very obscure by nature, the higher the
signal-to-noise ratio in this thread, the better our chances
are
of finding out why this message keeps on appearing
and of (hopefully) fixing it.

My suggestion: anyone who has any information about when
and under which circumstances this copy-protection violation
message, please keep posting. Other topics should be
discussed in threads created for that circumstance.

Cheers,

Carl

GUY SMILEY
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by GUY SMILEY » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:14 pm

I have a copy violation.
Same set up that I have had for weeks, well for ever really - no new software installed on this mac for weeks.
.. just all of a sudden when i login this morning (after having used ableton all of last night) neither live 7 or live 8 work.. i just get a copy violation, live crashes and i get re-directed to the ableton home page in safari.
If i create a new user account in apple preferences i get the same
if i uninstall and reinstall i get the same
if i reboot i get the same
support have no feedback yet (after about 5 hours) beyond - 'use someone elses computer'
so my £500 piece of software is now unusable.
This sucks.

dom
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by dom » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:39 pm

GUY SMILEY wrote: support have no feedback yet (after about 5 hours) beyond - 'use someone elses computer'
.
This copy protection problem (something on your machine altering the application code itself and triggering the protection) is without doubt highly annoying, and i have absolutely no excuse for that.

But me personally being on this case for the last 5 hours, talking to you on the phone, exchanging around 10 emails, checking logfiles etc. - and everything without waiting time for you being called "no feedback" sounds a bit harsh to me.

Besides all the things we talked about and already did to identify the problem you only seem to refer to my latest suggestion of giving you as many unlocks as you need to use another machine in the meantime in order to get at least your work done, while we're doing everything here to find the cause for your initial problem - as it is obvious that this is one of the cases that only happen locally on that machine.

So again, there's a problem on your first machine and we won't let you down until it is solved or you tell us to stop.
Calling this "no feedback beyond use another computer" sounds wrong to me and by writing this i want to set this straight as this should not create a wrong picture in here.

Best,
Dom
ableton support team
support@ableton.com

GUY SMILEY
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by GUY SMILEY » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:56 pm

Hello Dom,

Alright fair enough a bit harsh.
From my perspective, I am paid to work on Ableton all day long by my employer, and I also use it all the time writing music in my spare time.
I can't use my own copy of Ableton, due to a problem related entirely to the fact that it 'calls home' every single time I boot up my computer.
Whilst you may have been working hard in the background on this, all of the emails I have received have offered no more advice than restart, reinstall or use someone elses computer.

the additional unlocks you have provided are helpful, but i do not have a spare computer lying around to use.. I have had to borrow a colleagues (whilst they sit around waiting for me to finish) and have now had to return that - it already had ableton live 8 installed on it.

I have not heard anything for an hour or so, and am very frustrated.. Soon your day will finish. mine continues ( I have someone who was supposed to be coming over for a remix later - after i finish my day job)

I am a paid up Ableton Devotee for several years, and have not changed any aspect of the configuration of my machine, so am dismayed at this turn of events. That is not to say that it may be caused by a virus or some auto-update of another piece of software on my computer. Nonetheless it is exasperating that I have not had any really concrete suggestions on how to resolve this.

I have sent through log files etc - but had no feedback on what these would indicate is the core problem..

I work long hours, and today was planning on spending about 18hours on Ableton. I am playing a festival this weekend where I am going to have to use Ableton.

Basically if this isn't resolved by 6pm I won't have any option other than to wipe my hard drive clean, and reinstall all 41 applications i have installed (yes I counted them) including many fonts etc .. which I had spent hours and hours of my life organising etc etc.
This will involve re-downloading the apps from the internet and trying to find the relevant emails etc with all of the license keys etc, which is not something I was planning on doing..

1. 914
2. pro tools 8
3. adverb
4. decimort
5. discord
6. elephant
7. filterbank3
8. imposcar
9. schope
10. sir2
11. uhbik
12. nepheton
13. rough rider
14. drumazon
15. oddity
16. redpotor
17. roughrider
18. Korg Legacy
19. PSP42
20. PSP84
21. PSPVintageWarmer
22. Voxengo LF Max
23. Vpxengo Elephant
24. Onyx
25. Live
26. Melodyne Essential
27. Motu Drivers
28. Recycle
29. skype
30. sketchup
31. tomato torrent
32. xmarks for safari
33. vyzex mpd24
34. audio hijack pro
35. borne's midi translator pro
36. calaboration
37. handbrake
38. epson scan
39. vlc
40. millions of fonts
41. liquid mix

dom
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by dom » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:09 pm

As i said, i can totally understand your situation and obviously Live itself only being affected by what's happening on your machine, but not initially causing this makes absolutely no difference for you - it does not work.

And this is what we want to solve.
I can also understand that you want to just reinstall your machine.
We will not find out what was going on there, but at least you may be able to work again.
But maybe it will even happen again, depending on what other application is the culprit.
GUY SMILEY wrote: I can't use my own copy of Ableton, due to a problem related entirely to the fact that it 'calls home' every single time I boot up my computer.
Actually this is wrong, Live asks you to call home only once for unlocking it.
After being unlocked it does not want to connect to the net at all.

Best,
Dom
ableton support team
support@ableton.com

GUY SMILEY
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by GUY SMILEY » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:16 pm

Hi Dom,

Alright truce. I understand that you personally are working very hard on this, and am appreciative.
Considering I bought, installed and authorised Ableton Live 8 ages ago why is it still trying to be authorised on my machine ?

That is to say, it seems to go through the authorisation process every single time I open it.. isn't that what the 'looged in as'
box represents in the preferences pane ?

MidiMonk
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Re: [5534] copy protection violation? thanks for that

Post by MidiMonk » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:56 pm

GUY SMILEY wrote:Hi Dom,

Alright truce. I understand that you personally are working very hard on this, and am appreciative.
Considering I bought, installed and authorised Ableton Live 8 ages ago why is it still trying to be authorised on my machine ?

That is to say, it seems to go through the authorisation process every single time I open it.. isn't that what the 'looged in as'
box represents in the preferences pane ?
Don't know if this helps, but..

I have had a somewhat similar issue with Ik Multimedia's Sampletank losing its authorizations in the past few weeks requiring me to re register each time.Their tech support says that 10.5.7 is the cause, I had to ask for my lost re authorizations cuz I blew through 3 in a few days it was horrible.I don't understand how the copy protection works, but it seems similarly based.So basically if your running 10.5.7 as I see Guy is a mbp user, it may give another path to look at.

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