Talent vs Imagination

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
pulsoc
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by pulsoc » Wed May 20, 2009 3:26 pm

The only thing that I am frustrated by is IMHO you are full of shit.

You have 48 posts on this forum, most of which are your "blog" posts. IMHO they are transparent "interest generators". I say you don't contribute because you aren't part of any conversations and you aren't around to help the noobs with questions. And yes, my friend, I do that when I see a question I can help with.

I don't believe you when you say big-name dj's like your stuff, or at least that they play it. After listening to your tracks I just cannot believe it. I don't care what you think of my music, AND I don't go around implying big-name trend-setters play it.

I have looked at your tutorials and they are such low-level affairs I can't imagine you have any in-depth knowledge worth passing on.

You just sort of appeared on the board one day, selling shit, blogging. This is my OPINION, I won't bother you again with it, but I just wanted to clarify those points which you misunderstood/distorted. Good-luck to you, I hope, like everyone, you get whatever you deserve.
innerstatejt wrote:Polsoc,

You seem very frustrated that I write from my experience and my opinions and share those opinions in a forum. I figure if I am going to write something, I should put a little time into it before I share it. I'm not bothered whether you agree with it or not. That isn't really the point.
If you are talking about contribution to this forum and beyond, who is is making a better contribution, someone who speaks his mind in hopes of making people think about certain subjects, or someone who comes in and says that person sucks? The easy solution is to not read what you don't want to read and let those who enjoy it, enjoy it.

Yes, I sell Ableton tutorials and I happen to have alot of people from around the world tell me they appreciate that I make them. This is no secret. My free Blogs may or may not draw people to my website, but those who purchase from my site do so because I offer something that they want. I've never had someone ask for a refund, so that tells me that what I do is appreciated.

If I was only interested in selling products, I would probably only write About Ableton related subjects and I wouldn't spend as much time as I do answering all the questions that I get by email and phone calls for free. I also wouldn't be putting so many free tutorials up on youtube. I'm not really that competitive in this market either. In fact I try to help promote others who I find to have useful information. There is room for everybody. I remember what it was like to not know anything about music software and it was very frustrating. I am here to be a part of making that path easier for others. I think I'm doing my part. Even those that I've talked to from Ableton appreciate what I do.

As far as my music goes, it's so silly to talk about it's merit in terms of who has or hasn't supported it. Nonetheless I have had greater support than you have suggested. A small list of supporters would be John Digweed, Hernan Cattaneo (who said one of my tracks was his biggest track for 9 months striaght in DJ mag and BPM), Way out West(big plays from both members), James Holden, Tigerhook corp, Taylor, Low Fidelity allstars. There are several others that I can't remember at the moment. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day. The only person I am trying to impress is myself and like all of us, I sometimes am not living up to my potential.

I normally don't like to do that much horn tooting but whether you like what I do or not, even some of the best find my work good enough to support. I listened to your music Polsoc like I told you before and I thought it was good. I have no idea about its commercial merits, but I would never say that you don't contribute to the community. I'm just not certain why I should be a target.

Many of the people on these forums sell their music. Is that somehow more honorable than selling training Videos? Anyway, I guess you can talk as much crap as you like and I'll keep doing the things that obviously piss you off. At least you know that what I do isn't meant as a personal attack on you.

"peace love and harmony.. but maybe in the next world" - the smiths

Tone Deft
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by Tone Deft » Wed May 20, 2009 3:35 pm

pulsoc wrote:The only thing that I am frustrated by is IMHO you are full of shit.

You have 48 posts on this forum, most of which are your "blog" posts. IMHO they are transparent "interest generators". I say you don't contribute because you aren't part of any conversations and you aren't around to help the noobs with questions. And yes, my friend, I do that when I see a question I can help with.

I don't believe you when you say big-name dj's like your stuff, or at least that they play it. After listening to your tracks I just cannot believe it. I don't care what you think of my music, AND I don't go around implying big-name trend-setters play it.

I have looked at your tutorials and they are such low-level affairs I can't imagine you have any in-depth knowledge worth passing on.

You just sort of appeared on the board one day, selling shit, blogging. This is my OPINION, I won't bother you again with it, but I just wanted to clarify those points which you misunderstood/distorted. Good-luck to you, I hope, like everyone, you get whatever you deserve.
look at your post history.

him > you
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

Nick the Zombie
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by Nick the Zombie » Wed May 20, 2009 3:51 pm

I enjoy all of your posts, innerstatejt. They generate interesting debates and create a substantive conversation, regardless of what some may think.

Hermanus
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by Hermanus » Wed May 20, 2009 3:56 pm

first we got passion, next we got envy.

Then our will is gonna activate!

And Talent comes with hours of work, intensive and focused hours!

Work work work [but be gently though] :twisted:

You can be very talented at first [better said "gifted" maybe], but if you don't work[compose/playing, editing] it's a waste of energy.

Just my point of view :wink:

ethios4
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by ethios4 » Wed May 20, 2009 4:38 pm

What you're talking about is what I'm counting on. :)

There are plenty of other guitarists that are waaaaaaaaaay better than I ever will be. There are plenty of other producers that are waaaaaaaaaaay better than me.
I could work my ass off to really really good at either of these or several other aspects of being a "musician", but I am much happier spending my time not worrying about that kind of thing and just sticking to where my own musical "sense" takes me, which has more to do with creative exploration than being an awesome guitarist or producer. Because of this path I have developed my own musical language to express what I want to express, but I can't necessarily hang in an all-star jam with other local hotshots. It's a good trade in my book! ;)

innerstatejt
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by innerstatejt » Wed May 20, 2009 6:24 pm

If there is one thing I hate, it is being called full of shit or a liar? and you say that is your HUMBLE opinion? Thusfar I don't find anything humble about your opinions.You say my videos are of such "low level" affairs. Well, those low level affairs have received an overwhelming amount of positive feedback, so maybe there is a huge market for someone to clearly answer so-called low level questions. I of course deal with more complex things as well (clearly not complex enough for your tastes). Also as far as quality, the you tube videos are obviously compressed, but the full collections I sell are of a higher quality.

As far as helping people, I am lucky enough to be able to reach and help far more people than just the Ableton Forum. alot of the reason I am not on this forum as often is because I am busy helping alot of other people in a more direct way than through a forum. I am also creating more tutorials or writing about subjects that I think can help alot more people in Ableton and music production in general.

You say that you don't go implying that you get big name support, yet you implied that my music was not worthy of any support and you stated "as fact" that no one of any merit was or would be interested in my music. It would be far more fair to say that YOU had no interest in my music.
Here are some links to support I've got from my Innerstate tracks.

This Hernan Cattaneo set was aired on KISS fm:
http://tinyurl.com/pw99xd

This is Hernan's "master's series" mix cd with a remix of my track of my track:
http://tinyurl.com/od7dfg

John Digweed - NYE set Avalon 2004 (i'm song 37)
http://tinyurl.com/qkp6wb

I also produced, mixed, mastered and played on this KDC album back in 1999 under the name Nikk Shifter:
http://tinyurl.com/o6nv6u

There's other stuff but I won't bother with that. I'm sure you can google other stuff if you want.
I'm not here to boost my ego, but more to set the record straight. There is no need to open your mouth when you don't anything about me. These are lessons your mom should have taught you. Maybe you just need a hug.


ps- Thanks to everyone who has made a positive contribution to this topic/debate. There is no need to agree with me for your opinion to be valuable.
Jason
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LoopStationZebra
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by LoopStationZebra » Wed May 20, 2009 7:00 pm

It's not that I mind you posting threads like this. Quite the contrary; many people have seemed to enjoy what you have to say. Cool.

You gotta admit though, it takes a MASSIVE ego to write over 20 paragraphs; essentially talking about yourself. :oops:

Dude. Can you trim that down? lol. I compare it to a guy like Tarekith; who has written some epic posts, but nearly every friggin paragraph turns out to be a really helpful bit of information on how to potentially make music in a better or different way. His posts are well crafted tutorials. Your post is a dissertation - about you. lol.

I'm busting your balls a bit, so forgive me. :P
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

Tone Deft
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by Tone Deft » Wed May 20, 2009 7:02 pm

innerstatejt wrote:If there is one thing I hate, it is being called full of shit or a liar?
the badgers smell blood.

jason - I meant my 'Disco Dancer' quote.

agreed with LoopSation, including his 'busting you balls a bit'... just a bit.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

LOFA
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by LOFA » Wed May 20, 2009 7:29 pm

Wish I had some popcorn.

OP: I like your style

LoopStationZebra
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by LoopStationZebra » Wed May 20, 2009 7:45 pm

pulsoc wrote: I have looked at your tutorials and they are such low-level affairs I can't imagine you have any in-depth knowledge worth passing on.

Damn, you're out for blood! Seems like a nice set of tuts for the beginner to mid. *shrug*
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

OvertoneZero
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by OvertoneZero » Thu May 21, 2009 1:45 am

I like this thread and discussing topics relating to music and creativity as well as technical stuff

Makes me think.

innerstatejt
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by innerstatejt » Thu May 21, 2009 7:00 am

Loop.. Ball busting is part of the game and I'm not bothered by it at all. The reason for the long post in the forum is this..

Previously I would simply post a link to my blog with a quick description for whoever wanted to read it. I then had someone complain that the only reason I posted the link was to get people to my site so I could immediately sell them stuff(sound familiar?). I figured if I just posted the whole blog in the forum then no one could complain that I was sharing this information just to bring people to my website. The information was right there to read freely, if you so chose to, with no need to leave the forum.

Don't get me wrong, I am not ashamed of marketing myself and interacting with people who could use my products or just share ideas, but I feel that sharing Free information(or personal opinions) on Ableton, Music Production, Mixing, Mastering, productivity and creative mindset is just as important. I believe in giving far more value than I ask for in return.

Overtone.. Thanks for the reply. People like you who are part the reason I write. Another reason is to challenge conventional or popular thinking in terms of creative arts. I publicly broadcast my imperfections, opinions and rule bending approach as a way of helping others to not be afraid to do the same.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a creative rulebook, I just think it should be written in pencil and come with an eraser so you can "remix" it to your own tastes.
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Hermanus
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by Hermanus » Thu May 21, 2009 11:53 am

When I said "work", I should have developed that.

I started music with a guitar... after a few years, a only instrument was not enough it seemed, I discovered composition and overall MAO :twisted:

What a freedom landscape for a non virtuose musician.

I have to admit my skills are limited, I did not learn every scale by heart.
I got plenty of ideas and it's not always efficient to lack some theory.
But if you got just what you need for composing and have what you need to express it, then it's great whatever skilled you are! [I'm optimist^^]

I'm naturally lazy :oops:
So Knowing I have my everyday job, I got to kick my ass to work on music sometimes.

But it's always with pleasure and the effort given, it's rewarding once the task is accomplished.

[hope everyone will understand the idea with my lacked english :mrgreen: ]

nuxnamon
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by nuxnamon » Thu May 21, 2009 7:56 pm

I for one like your topics and have visited your website and has cool stuff.. Sure you sell stuff buy your not putting it down our throats. It's better than some of the other posts and it's music related. It's clear to me that you aim to help people but I think the main reason why some people give you a hard time is because your not one of the more popular ones here on the forum.. This forum can be kind of "clickish" regardless if anybody will admit to it or not. If your name was TITBAG (no offense), you would be praised regardless of content..I just don't agree with people coming of very confrontational and talking smack when your just trying to help..

Tone Deft
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Re: Talent vs Imagination

Post by Tone Deft » Thu May 21, 2009 8:26 pm

nuxnamon wrote:I think the main reason why some people give you a hard time is because your not one of the more popular ones here on the forum.. This forum can be kind of "clickish" regardless if anybody will admit to it or not. If your name was TITBAG (no offense), you would be praised regardless of content..I just don't agree with people coming of very confrontational and talking smack when your just trying to help..
totally disagree. if that was true ALL posters with low post counts would get this treatment, but they don't. there's no evidence that supports your conclusion. you feeling left out? need a hug?

HEY NEB!!! nux needs a manhug.

that 'Lord Of The Flies' stuff does pop up, this ain't it. if anything people have stepped up to support this guy because they are familiar with him, so the opposite of what you're describing is true.

there's the idea of a blog - one person speaks, many listen. then there's the idea of a forum - many people speak at once. making long posts about yourself with broad sweeping statements about music when nobody asked you for your opinion doesn't fly on a forum. it's a style thing.

innerstatejt - I've said my peace, I don't mean to be a hater.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

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