Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
twisted-space
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by twisted-space » Sat May 23, 2009 8:05 pm


Leon Tricker
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by Leon Tricker » Sat May 23, 2009 9:34 pm

Wow, thanks for all the replies chaps! The last suggestion, Apollo, looks like the sort of thing I need so thank you Twisted for pointing me in the right direction :D The only problem now is getting the right MIDI controller... (i.e. one with enough knobs/sliders... how can I convince my wife that a Lemur is essential?!?!)

Swishniak, you are right about M4L - I am desperate for this to come out like everyone else. You are right that I am trying to use a contemporary tool for an 'old fashioned' task. But if you've never tried old school, modular synth style sequencing then I urge you to try.

It's true, interactive composition. It allows you to vary patterns on the fly, in real time in a way that makes the sequencer feel like an instrument. The advantage of doing this from within Live is that it's cheaper, takes up way less space, and opens up the option of combining that old school way of sequencing with newer tools.

Leon Tricker
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by Leon Tricker » Sun May 24, 2009 8:58 am

After a loooong night with the laptop, I have cracked it! :D And predictbly, the answer was very obvious!

Apollo didin't quite do what I wanted and I concluded that really I wanted a solution from Live's built in devices.

So, here's the answer: set up one Operator per part (e.g. one for bass, one for melody etc)and have 8 MIDI tracks feeding each instance of Operator. Each MIDI track triggers one 'step' of a one bar loop, meaning when you hit play, Live steps theough each MIDI track in turn and the one instance of Operator is triggered by each step.

Using pitch, velocity and note length MIDI effects I can vary each step just like a hardware anlalog sequencer. This is also far more CPU efficient than using 8 instances of Operator to achieve the same thing!!!

What will really help is an upgrade to Live 8 so I can get folder tracks :D If I want a simple four part song (bass, melody, kick, snare) I need four Operators each being fed by 8 MIDI tracks: so, 36 tracks! This is difficult to navigate!

Still need a big enough MIDI controller though...

Johnisfaster
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by Johnisfaster » Sun May 24, 2009 9:20 am

Leon Tricker wrote: Still need a big enough MIDI controller though...
what you got in mind? maybe apc-40?
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

anamexis
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by anamexis » Sun May 24, 2009 9:27 am

Johnisfaster wrote:
Leon Tricker wrote: Still need a big enough MIDI controller though...
what you got in mind? maybe apc-40?
I feel like the APC 40 wouldn't actually work well for the kind of step sequencer he's got in mind. Something like the Drehbank might be perfect, though.

Johnisfaster
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by Johnisfaster » Sun May 24, 2009 9:47 am

anamexis wrote:
Johnisfaster wrote:
Leon Tricker wrote: Still need a big enough MIDI controller though...
what you got in mind? maybe apc-40?
I feel like the APC 40 wouldn't actually work well for the kind of step sequencer he's got in mind. Something like the Drehbank might be perfect, though.
the drehbank would have it's advantages of course but without buttons it would still be lacking.

basically the problem is there isn't a controller thats perfect for what he's looking for, thats why I asked "what do you have in mind" cause I was curious if he'd found something.

the monome works out well for me but it doesn't have knobs which would certainly be nice for this kind of thing.

on a side note, analog sequencers don't quantize the notes to half steps, I haven't heard of a way to analog style sequence within live while being able to freely set the notes the way an analog sequencer would (ie. not fixed to half steps)

another side note, if the drehbank is built anything like the doepfer modules I would have to say I don't actually prefer the knobs style of doepfer modules nor how close the knobs are placed together on their modules. but then I do own some doepfer modules and I enjoy using them, I just don't prefer their knobs or spacing.. of course if the drehbank is different then that isn't relevant.
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

anamexis
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by anamexis » Sun May 24, 2009 10:05 am

Johnisfaster wrote: the drehbank would have it's advantages of course but without buttons it would still be lacking.
right but for something like the VST posted above, it would be great - no buttons needed.

Johnisfaster
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by Johnisfaster » Sun May 24, 2009 10:22 am

maybe so, I was mostly commenting to leon tricker when I talked about the midi controllers, who wasn't talking about the vst posted above.
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

selthym
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by selthym » Sun May 24, 2009 11:13 am

Leon Tricker wrote:After a loooong night with the laptop, I have cracked it! :D And predictbly, the answer was very obvious!

Apollo didin't quite do what I wanted and I concluded that really I wanted a solution from Live's built in devices.

So, here's the answer: set up one Operator per part (e.g. one for bass, one for melody etc)and have 8 MIDI tracks feeding each instance of Operator. Each MIDI track triggers one 'step' of a one bar loop, meaning when you hit play, Live steps theough each MIDI track in turn and the one instance of Operator is triggered by each step.

Using pitch, velocity and note length MIDI effects I can vary each step just like a hardware anlalog sequencer. This is also far more CPU efficient than using 8 instances of Operator to achieve the same thing!!!

What will really help is an upgrade to Live 8 so I can get folder tracks :D If I want a simple four part song (bass, melody, kick, snare) I need four Operators each being fed by 8 MIDI tracks: so, 36 tracks! This is difficult to navigate!

Still need a big enough MIDI controller though...
Use 8 Midi (Instrument) Racks instead of 8 tracks per part. This way you get get it done in 4 tracks instead of 36.

Hermanus
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by Hermanus » Sun May 24, 2009 11:25 am

If you have A nice midi controler, Try Fib02 From TrackTeamAudio.
It worths the try! and it's free!
I own an Akai Mpd32, fib02 is the perfect sequencer for beats with this controler

I found a nice sequencer for both Mac & windows, free and easily synced with ableton through MidiYokE

You can find it here>>> http://www.glitch-sequencer.com/

I use it with simpler and drumracks or another nice little drumbox called optik [windows only I think] http://www.psychicmodulation.com/Optik.html

In fact You can use it with plenty of stuff... I even succeeded in controlling CC's with third party vst's [like cutoff and resonance for instance but it's random depending on which vst you try]

It's a nice little app which I use to find different colours in compos... And well It's kinda brilliant.
I record my impros with presnaped loops in GlitchSequencer.
Next, I reedit in ableton the parts that were wrong or not fully efficient :lol:

XPM
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by XPM » Sun May 24, 2009 11:38 am

Arturia moog modular has exactly that.
Image

Hermanus
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by Hermanus » Sun May 24, 2009 11:55 am

maybe but it's far from free
And glitchSeq can reach 256steps! [against 24 steps for arturiaMoog]
And is nice to watch>>draw and play :mrgreen:

leisuremuffin
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by leisuremuffin » Sun May 24, 2009 2:58 pm

the only thing i haven't been able to figure out is how to recreate an analog step seq timing feature.
the part where you could assign a row of knobs to control the speed of the clock?
if anybody can figure that one out i'll be really happy.



.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

Leon Tricker
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by Leon Tricker » Tue May 26, 2009 11:28 am

selthym wrote:Use 8 Midi (Instrument) Racks instead of 8 tracks per part. This way you get get it done in 4 tracks instead of 36.
Hi Selthym, are you able to elaborate on how to set this up? How would the MIDI racks trigger notes in Operator?

Have to say, I am blown away by the helpful discussion this subject. The Drehbank would be ideal, but getting hold of one is tricky. For what I have in mind, buttons aren't essential but would be a useful addition.

The APC is more geared towards a specific task, I think. What I really need is lots of rotary encoders. I'll probably get a BCR2000. I had one before but sold it thinking I wouldn't use it again... silly me :D

But knowing the BCR, and having thought about it over the weekend, I know it can do what I want (until I save enough for that Lemur :D)

selthym
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Re: Modular synth analog sequencer plug-in?

Post by selthym » Tue May 26, 2009 2:12 pm

Leon Tricker wrote:
selthym wrote:Use 8 Midi (Instrument) Racks instead of 8 tracks per part. This way you get get it done in 4 tracks instead of 36.
Hi Selthym, are you able to elaborate on how to set this up? How would the MIDI racks trigger notes in Operator?
quote]

Insert a pitch effect and a velocity effect (and a note length effect if you like). Select all devices and click group. Now expand this rack so you can see this 'chain'. Copy and paste the chain 7 more times. I would name these steps 1 through to 8.

Map your midi controller so that the control (fader / rotary) for step 1's velocity is mapped to the step 1 chains velocity. Do this for all the controls.

Create a new clip on this track. Place a note of the same pitch at the appropriate interval. I would place these notes at 1.1 1.3 2.1 2.3 3.1 3.3 4.1 4.3 of a 1 bar clip.

Go into the envelope editor in the clip and select 'midi effect rack' > 'Chain Selector' as the envelope to edit. Draw in an envelop that steps through each chain in line with the notes you drew. Now each note should be sent to only that steps 'chain'.

I would personally now drop a scale effect after this rack and then the single instance of operator, or any other instrument you please.

Save this set so it is easy to recall whenever you want to start a new project.

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