Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Da hand
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by Da hand » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:23 am

beats me wrote:Serato is for old vinyl DJs that can't let it go and, like all things music, once a standard is set it's slow to move forward or change. I think this also at some point leads to apathy with the developer that sets the standard while competition slowly takes their market share. Pro Tools anyone?


Traktor rules for options and ease of use.

Lol. This post made me laugh. I don't see Traktor/ Torq, etc being any more forward thinking than Serato. It's all based on the same old school DJ setup: mixer and decks.

Ableton, on the other hand, is a totally different approach. More forward thinking in this sense by far.

aqua_tek
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by aqua_tek » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:11 pm

The other day, there was this well-known Philly DJ called Cosmo Baker, ranting on twitter about the whole Serato / Traktor thing... how nobody else is a "real" DJ anymore.

I could've cared less for the rant... however... it was funny to see a multitude of people RT'ing (retweeting/reposting) his rant in support... many of which I've seen DJ at shows with the aforementioned pieces of software... and still messing up their mixes. :lol:

starving student
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by starving student » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:22 pm

I don't agree with putting people down for using software but I completely agree that in these new days and ages that we need some new terms to keep up with our technology and sometimes uppity ways of thinking for instance have you noticed that even though we use computers and forward thinking ground breaking innovative software these days and on top of that that we call so called 'real djs' dinosaurs, old and backward thinking and actualy put them down for having manual beatmatching skills that even though we do all of these things we still call ourselves djs,

why not call ourselves some forward thinking non-oldschool always pushing the envelope kind of term, we should hate being called a dj, after all it's a term that was coined by them and defined them we should probably use something else and I know alot of people do like controllerist or live pa artist but the majority still hang on to the title of an artform that they feel is backwards. how many people do you see always talking about throwing away their decks and records and not caring about the manual skills and still using the name that goes along with those things that they've thrown away so it's not too hard to understand they see us with our computers talking shit about how we've thrown away and don't value everything that they are but we still take their name.
thats why i don't even call myself a dj.

also there is kind of some oxymoronic situation going on because on one hand we are passionate about claiming our musicianship and rightly so, many people refuse to see us as musicians and they are wrong, we
feel that our skills should be respected, but we look down on the skills of the original dj, another level of this oxymoronism is that we would never allow someone using one of steinbergs guitar programs to be praised over someone playing the guitar skillfully but when it comes to djing their seems to be a double standard, the dj with skills gets scoffed at while the pianist, guitarist, bassist, or drummer with skills get's applauded so we're kind of disrepecting ourselves.
I think we should call ourselves something else and get off the djs dicks, then nobody would care what we did, what kind of computer we used and what program we used and it would allow us to be judged correctly based on what we do and terms that apply to us.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-iCITjD ... =rec-HM-r2

aqua_tek
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by aqua_tek » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:51 am

I myself don't consider myself a DJ... at least I don't want it to be my main calling. First and foremost, I'm a producer. I produce my own music. I just happen to be able to play it out, in a variety of methods.

Thing is, though, someone sees you on stage with decks, cdj's, traktor, whatever... as long as you're mixing, that someone will call you a DJ. And that someone I'm talking about is 99% of the punters that go to parties. I think it's an already established thing, and it'd be hard to teach audiences to give what they see as DJ's, an entirely different name.

What would the name be?
Mixer? Sounds like a drink.
LJ (laptop jockey)? already has a derogatory connotation
Controllerist? most people are too lazy to even want to pronounce it.
Performer? way too broad a term.

It's just gotten so hybridized as well, that it's kind of hard to categorize someone. I mean... you ARE using discs... sort of... they don't have music on them but they do make the music on your laptop run. So... you are "sort of" a DJ? Nah... I think the name "DJ" is forever here to stay. It may not be correct to some purists, because they only consider DJ's, guys like Craze, as you suggested, Klever, A-trak, Grandma, Jazzy Jeff, Mixmaster Mike, etc etc etc. Still, that's them apples. I think it'd be easier to put these types of DJ's into the category of "turntablist", and come to accept that the term "DJ" itself covers a wide spectrum of people.

starving student
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by starving student » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:13 am

I like you in that I have the skills to play music live but I'm not a dj either, but I disagree that most people look at all of those descriptions and call them djs, in my experience the term dj is established just like you say but people with laptops being looked at as djs is far from being established outside of other people with laptops that want to be called that. my point is you can't have it both ways, look down on people for whom the term was created and then say that what they do and there methods is useless oldhat and then go and want to be called a name that belongs to them it's just disrespectful from an artistic point of view, and how would we have the right to take their name and then go and change what they are to being called turntablist, that wouldn't be right to turntablist....again I'm speaking as from one artist to other artist it's just kind of disrespectful (i thats not your intention) DJ craze for instance is not a turntablist, he has turntablist skills under his belt that's for sure but he's a dj not a turntablist. I know alot of people don't care about stuff like this at all but those same people wouldn't act that way about another type of musician, we give other types of musicians credit, you never
here people treating great synthesist in a manner not befitting. I love turntablism so I have no wish to take their name and plaster it on everything like we've done with dj. and I don't know what we should call ourselves really but whatever it is we should figure it out just like every other type of musical artist community has had to do and when we do we'll be glad we did and it will translate well to the people watching us do what we do.

aqua_tek
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by aqua_tek » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:37 am

starving student wrote:my point is you can't have it both ways, look down on people for whom the term was created and then say that what they do and there methods is useless oldhat and then go and want to be called a name that belongs to them it's just disrespectful from an artistic point of view, and how would we have the right to take their name and then go and change what they are to being called turntablist, that wouldn't be right to turntablist....
yeah don't misunderstand me. From the artistic standpoint, I totally agree. Taking the originators of an art then removing them into a smaller niche community called "turntablists" isn't cool, but what I'm talking about is a result of the non-education of party goers.

Let's face it, they are the ones that most dj's/performers cater to, and most of them are too lazy to care about specifics. Combine this with a bombardment of wrong info from different kinds of media and what you have is masses upon masses of people just calling everyone a DJ, so then you need to find a way to specify exactly what you are. Yes, maybe the term turntablist isn't the right one. Who knows. I'm not an expert on the matter. Maybe we'll just have to continue to call the whole range of people "DJ", then specify what type. Are you a mix DJ? Trick DJ? A little of both? It aint easy coming up with specifics.

Like I said, I myself do not aim to be called a DJ. I'd rather just be known as a producer guy who just so happens to be on the decks tonight. To most people it'll still look like you're on "DJ" duty for the night. I don't know what the solution is, and I'm not saying that we should just forget the past and move on. I'm just saying... maybe we all need to accept that the term DJ has evolved into a broad spectrum of people with different skillsets... while still keeping in mind and respecting where we came from, and the fact that there are still purists going at it.

I have the utmost respect for these people, and they can diss on my skills (or lack of) anytime. I sure as hell wasn't dissing on them. My initial point was that, while these purists have earned the right to comment... others, who are not even CLOSE to being worthy of the calling of DJ, are all of a sudden dissing on the "digi-DJ's" just cause a well-respected traditional DJ is... especially when these posers are digi-DJ's themselves... and they suck at it.

Da hand
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by Da hand » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:28 am

DJing vs Live PA is not what gear you use, but what you play. If you play mostly other peoples tracks, you are DJing. If you play your own music you are Live PA. Not much confusion there.

starving student
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by starving student » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:31 am

I hear you aqua and I wasn't talking about you I already know your intentions. I wish there was some cool little handle for puter pedlars cause the laptop is a cool as little piece of kit and it needs somethin to call it's own, that's how you build things, from the name up shiiiit if accountants didn't already have it I'd go for C.P.A. computer performance artist, I can easily hear it "I'm goin to check out some cpas tonight" matter of fact I think I like that who cares if accountants already have it it's not like they're playing music

forge
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by forge » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:08 am

Jekblad wrote:will max for live allow us multiple waveform viewing?

it'd be hot to emulate this setup
without knowing what the Serato thing is about, I think you should be able to create something like this with Max - I think you would have to design a new interface in Max and map it to Live's parameters

I would like the same thing for track view as well so that you can see the positions of EQ/Filters and FX when mixing 2 tracks

drewbixcube
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by drewbixcube » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:45 am

drewbixcube wrote:I'll post its beginnings in the next day or so.
Done: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=117490

aqua_tek
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by aqua_tek » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:54 pm

drewbixcube wrote:
drewbixcube wrote:I'll post its beginnings in the next day or so.
Done: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=117490
NICE!

IP
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by IP » Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:51 am

Hi!
Im looking for "laptop" djing solution too!
(I mean to go software + controller)

5 pages and your are talking only about Serato and Traktor!

No one even mention Virtual DJ

Is it so bad? or just no famous enough?

starving student
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by starving student » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:09 pm

IP wrote:Hi!
Im looking for "laptop" djing solution too!
(I mean to go software + controller)

5 pages and your are talking only about Serato and Traktor!

No one even mention Virtual DJ

Is it so bad? or just no famous enough?
it's not that it's just that this thread is mainly about traktor

Imaulle
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by Imaulle » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:15 pm

nuperspective wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1H9W_iLff0

check out the other parts as well.

fuck Richie Hawtin

ryansupak
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Re: Why isTraktor becoming the standard for djing

Post by ryansupak » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:53 pm

I think Traktor is probably the more "tweak friendly" system, but I don't see any competitor touching Serato. Personally I've never had Serato crash or seen it crash. I hear Traktor is very stable too but I've never had a compelling reason to change what works, since I really only ask for library functionality from my DVS.

I tend to see the whole "more tweakability = better performance" thing as a bit of an illusion.

rs

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