G5 2.5 verses a top end PC desktop or laptop

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:20 am

detroitechno wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:The biggest move apple could ever make. is make their os compatible with any pc.
I couldn't agree with that more. OSX on pc, the war is over.
One thing people forget is that Apple makes an OS that works with a specific line of hardware, they stress test the shit out of the gear before it gets released, and 99% of the time it's rock solid.
The major reason given by my friend who tests Apple hardware for a living, ( no I NEVER ask him what the speed of the latest macs will be, I don't want him fired! ), for Apple pulling the license on the clones was that the competition was cutting major corners to come in bellow Apple in price, then begging them to help solve technical issues they were having.
I can't see Apple spending years developing a solid Intel/AMD OS, and pretty much stopping development of hardware? Doesn't make sense.

Funny nobody mention the Centrino chips? with Pro-Tools LE the Centrino kicks ass on even the desktops! 8O

If I didn't have a ton of software that's mac only, I would think about those chips.

AdamJay
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Post by AdamJay » Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:42 am

one reason apple would benefit from going x86...

i sold my mac to buy a pc, now they dont get any of my money. and they dont get any money from the person who bought my mac 2nd hand, because they saved money buying second hand. if OSX was made for x86 processors, Apple would have my money. but now they dont.
they dont have a dime from me now.

there are plenty more people just like me.


don't even get me started on market share. sure they are out of debt, but their machines are underpowered and overpriced. the only thing keeping that company afloat right now is the ipod.

illtrooper
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McDonald's is faster and cheaper too... Step up to more, son

Post by illtrooper » Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:19 am

This has become such a negative thread.

I love it when people proclaim "My PC runs circles around your Mac and it was cheaper!" Is your workflow running circles around mine because you own a computer that you saw a benchmark about? Are you really writing songs 2-3 times faster than me? Editing circles around me? Nah, I doubt it. If so, it's not the processor.

Macs are amazing, I own both platforms, Mac and PC - The PC (3ghz Pentium, shuttle box, 1 gig ram) is cool but for me, it's only good for Battlefield Vietnam. It could be for more, but why? The machine was cheaper and TECHNICALLY faster, but when it's time to WORK, which in my case is graphic design, video, and music, it is definitely NOT faster for me to deal with the Windows OS, the shoddy interface and low-quality hardware, etc... For me, at least, the Mac is the choice of professionals around me, in almost all areas. PCs are rarely in the picture, other than for Softimage XSi, which is not available on OSX. Nice render engines though.

The extra cost is worth it to me because it just works, plain and simple, it has for over a decade for me. 'Usability and Dependability' is faster than using my PC. Your machine is marginally faster and cheaper? Good for you, it's not running OSX, hands down a better, smoother operating system. G5s and PCs are running neck and neck, and to get that superior PC performance, many of the benchmarked PCs are costing more than the G5s. It's close enough that I'll stick to Mac.

If you want to talk about market share, then let's get to some nuts and bolts: in the professional CREATIVE fields, Mac has a larger percentage than PCs. But if you want to count all machines sold, everywhere, that means all the machines sold to people like your aunt, and the machines that run the registers down at Pep Boys, or in back stock rooms to keep inventory, then yes, you have a better market share.

But in creative? You will be hard pressed to find creative professionals like designers, editors, and musicians who would rather use a Windows machine. The cost is not a factor, that $500-1000 difference in machines can be made up in ONE morning at an agency or production house. And music? OSX has lower audio latency, system-level 'core audio' plug-ins, superior audio handling. Video? From iMovie to iDVD to DVD Studio Pro to Final Cut Pro HD, forget about it.

My advice to people who ask me what platform to get? I tell them to get what their friends have, Mac or PC. The ones who have faced the same problems or have some good tips for you if some *isht* goes crazy. People you can call at 3am for answers.
I mean, personally, I'd go Mac anytime, but they really aren't for everyone, I understand, sometimes that extra cost cannot be justified.

Hey, sorry to sound hostile, but there is just so much nonsense being written here, the same old tired pitch about how it's cheaper and faster to go PC, which is not always true... Like if someone won't work in your studio because you don't run Logic, or a Mac Avid, or Final Cut Pro... Is missing work opportunities really cheaper? It can go the other way too, but rarely in my fields.

Plus, if you don't need 'em, why you so mad at Apple? Why hold a grudge? Just don't buy their products.

Plus the macs just look sicker! :lol:

AdamJay
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Re: McDonald's is faster and cheaper too... Step up to more,

Post by AdamJay » Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:44 am

illtrooper wrote: I love it when people proclaim "My PC runs circles around your Mac and it was cheaper!" Is your workflow running circles around mine because you own a computer that you saw a benchmark about? Are you really writing songs 2-3 times faster than me? Editing circles around me? Nah, I doubt it. If so, it's not the processor.
no one said that, and i dont think this thread has gotten negative at all... unless you want to consider the fact that he had to Cancel his order for this mystical Dual 2.5ghz G5 that hasn't even shipped to him yet, ya thats mildly negative.

but since you brought it up, i actually AM being more productive since ditching my mac. In some of my ambient projects, things that require a great amount of detail to space and seperation... my G4 couldn't cope with even the "comfort" level of ableton's reverb.

when i work - i actually DO need headroom. you know, space to be creative. Does a painter need a room only the size of his canvas to be creative? No, he needs some space to mix paints, get a little dirty, etc.

about the market share, if apple had a larger market share, their machines would be cheaper. simple as that.


thank you, come again.

illtrooper
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Post by illtrooper » Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:58 am

My $975 Athlon 64 3000+ Laptop runs Ableton with NI Komplete plugins equally as fast, and in some instances faster than a $2,500 Dual 2ghz G5.

But you see, you did sort of say what I'm talking about. And it's cool that your PC works for you like my Macs work for me.

So more power to us, life is great.

AdamJay
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Post by AdamJay » Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:09 am

illtrooper wrote: But you see, you did sort of say what I'm talking about. And it's cool that your PC works for you like my Macs work for me.

So more power to us, life is great.
i was only responding to the subject of this topic, mate.

"G5 2.5 verses a top end PC desktop or laptop"

AdamJay
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Post by AdamJay » Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:38 am

but now that i think about it , yes you are right.

i just came to the self-realization (or self-reminder) that i really do thrive on having an argument. Its a side effect to working too much on music (using the creative sector of my brain), and working on computers (using the logical).
arguments help me excercise the theoretical part of my brain, and what i should really do is just read a good book for my theoretical stimulation.

sorry if you have become a by-stander in my self-destructive behavior.

and yes i am serious.

dfusion
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Post by dfusion » Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:35 am

AdamJay - At least your web site still says "Made with Mac" :)

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:47 am

the speed argument, yawn..... :roll:

Like I said nobody has even mentioned the Centrino chips, and those fucking things are SICK! I feel pitty for all of you PC fools who bought AMD or P4 chips thinking you would have more power, the benchmarks are out of hand.
This is coming from somebody that really will probably never get a PC. Windows is a PITA IMO.

I was happy plugging away on an 800mhz powerbook when a friend pretty much gave me a dual Gig G4. I tend to use Logic for song writing, then import it into Live for remixing and live use, so I really don't have any CPU problem. In fact I've never overloaded Live, but I haven't tried to either.
Logic uses both CPUs so I write on the desktop, and import into the Powerbook, besides Logic is a bit more surgical with the MIDI, and light on the CPU in general.

david122
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Post by david122 » Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:23 pm

I've for a 3.2ghz P4 HT alongside a Dual 2 G5 and the P4 is marginally faster.

But and it's a big but. With an app that's optimised for the G5 it's a different story. With Logic 6 I can run around a hundred busses, audio tracks with a dozen hungry synths and the meter never goes over 20%.

On the PC, Sonar, Cubase and Live regularly hit 70-80%.

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:15 pm

Somebody mentioned that AMD should get thogeter with Apple to make cheaper solutions.
It turns out Motorola and AMD are presenting their dual core chips in october that could be the new G4 chips for powerbooks. Off course it will be blinded out by intel who will probably do the same thing a month earlyer.
Anyway. New chips mean price drops

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:51 pm

david122 wrote:I've for a 3.2ghz P4 HT alongside a Dual 2 G5 and the P4 is marginally faster.

But and it's a big but. With an app that's optimised for the G5 it's a different story. With Logic 6 I can run around a hundred busses, audio tracks with a dozen hungry synths and the meter never goes over 20%.

On the PC, Sonar, Cubase and Live regularly hit 70-80%.
That's always been my understanding, that if an application is written well on a mac it kills PC, and visa versa. I remember people complaining about what a CPU hog Absynth on a PC was, and I never experienced that on a mac.....

ultrasource
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can i chime in?

Post by ultrasource » Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:20 pm

I've got both pc's and macs so I try to stay unbiased. The truth is... I can't stay unbiased. I compare product for product and the Mac, to me, is a better product. Speed aside (let's face it, half the time I'm stoned out of my gourd, so my machine is always faster than me), the Apple experience is pretty damn tight. It runs all the worthwhile apps that are out there and it is nice to have a choice of platforms. I would never intentionally start a pc vs. mac debate because the truth is out there: you are going to be more productive on whatever platform you feel most comfortable with.
BUT... What the hell is apple doing RIGHT NOW! They are having a crapload of time fulfilling G5 orders (including the new iMac - perhaps ruining an entire quarter of profits in the education market), they stopped making original airport cards (screwing those who have a computer less than 3 years old), their deal with MBNA is over so you can't even finance a mac (let's face it, a lot of people HAVE to finance a mac), and their build quality is getting worse. Hang out in the apple forums and you'll see what i mean (battery recalls, motherboard recalls, warping powerbooks, underpowered consumer line, etc).
No company is without fault but RIGHT NOW, apple's gotta get their sh*t together or more people like jamief will be cancelling orders and worse, switching platforms. That's no good for those who like to have the mac as a choice.

raapie
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..

Post by raapie » Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:22 pm

I want Linux!
Marco Raaphorst

music, sound & story maker

https://melodiefabriek.com

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:34 pm

They (apple) really need to shape up. They deliver the 2,5 g5's to apple store's. But if you want to buy them online you'd better have some patience. So far i've only seen 4 2,5's shipped. 2 somewhere in france. and 2 to a graphical company in Belgium. Not to much shipping going on.....

We could go on for hours mac/pc.....
for most mac users caughing up the extra dough compared to a pc. Is a small price to pay for not having to use windows........

Only one week to go till the apple expo. If they dont have the g5's by then......
Jobs is not doing the keynote (is he embarresd?)

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