ot : RACISM...

[slatepipe]

if that makes me 'namby pamby', as i was referred to earlier in this thread, then great, i am namby pamby

You're from Stokie of course you're namby pamby!

oh shit. you sussed me out. (im from yorkshire actually, i'm an immigrant in stokie )

[DrXparaMental]

So I just did a quick google

I'll paraphrase (links attached for your erudition)

Centre for immigration studies says 'illegals' cost US:
Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

Rense.com says (still cant believe I actually clicked on this BS site.. oh well)
The NRC found that the average immigrant household receives $13,326 in federal welfare and pays $10,664.00 in federal taxes. Thus, American taxpayers shell out $2,682.00 for each immigrant household.
http://www.rense.com/general81/dtli.htm

Compare that to the cost of bailing out our 'native' forefathers favorite sons:
Enron, Big 'crap' Auto-makers, Bankers, Mortgage scamers, etc, etc

CNN Money says:
Govt has commited 10.5 Trillion to bailouts, actually invested $2.7 trillion so far.
http://money.cnn.com/news/storysuppleme ... uttracker/

Natural news:
For the $700 billion bailout lie told to you by Congress and the Fed: The real cost of the financial bailout exceeds $8.5 trillion, or more than $26,000 for every man, woman and child in the country.
http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000553_ ... ation.html

So... ahh.. $2.7 trillion in bailouts/ 305 million USA population = $8852 per person.
Oh those real americans are sure helpful, and honest too.


Maybe illegals are actually better
at the very least... they cost the rest of us .. way less than a banker.
Eat the Rich!

You know, you've got a point there...now all you need is a hat to fit it!

Your logic, other than being none existent, is like stating.

"I have gonorrhea, but that's no big deal because I have syphilis as well. I mean, surely the two cancel each other out, right?"

[arafel]

DrXparaMental Said -

Sure, how about the illegal immigration issue in the united states for starters? There is positively NO thin end of the wedge. It's black and white. If you don't pay taxes, are not on a legitimate visa and are otherwise unaccounted for, GET THE FUCK OUT (no matter what race they are) because I am tired of supporting their ass.

Don't tell me because I don't feel like supporting a bunch of uneducated third world country vagrants that I am a racist. This ain't no flop house my man, and there is NO free ride.

If you haven't made it to the point in this life where you pay taxes (and not just get a refund), you vote and you support others as well as yourself, you wouldn't have a clue, nor would I expect you to.

Intolerance is assuredly justified as long as it's qualified with hard logic. You should only get out, what you put in. Claiming that you do a bunch of jobs that no one else is willing to is an excuse I am sick to death of hearing. Who did the jobs prior?

Pay the same price that our forefathers did. Fight your own battles and stop depending on us to bail your ass out when you don;t have the balls to pay the price that we already have.

Just to clarify..
I'll quote you.

If your tired of supporting 'illegal immigrants' you must really be tired of supporting your big businessmen twats.
See above post. $8800 bucks per person.. yikes.

'Pay the same price that our forefathers did'. 'Our Forefathers' used slaves to build their wealth. They killed & stole 'texas' from the legal mexican settlers there. Loisiana was bought from the French (Napoleon, that honest and upstanding citizen, was desperate for cash) and Alaska from the russians (really, really desperate for cash). 'Our Forefathers' were total shisters. Maybe you just meant 'your' forefathers.. BTW - They tried to invade Canada (1812) but got their asses kicked.. fak I'm suddenly hungry for Vietnamese spring rolls.

'Intolerance is assuredly justified as long as it's qualified with hard logic'. Wow.. let me check my copy of Mein Kampf to see what chapter your quoting from.

'If you haven't made it to the point in this life where you pay taxes (and not just get a refund)' . Hold on.. is that logical? Can you get a refund if you haven't paid anything in.. is that how US taxes work? Might explain 'our forefathers' and our bankers' mortgage crisis. With those special math rules no wonder your pissed off at paying taxes. Get a book on accounting and get that refund too man! If those 'uneducated' illegals can get a refund, how stupid are your for not? Jeez.

'Who did the jobs prior?' .. that would be well, us. You, Me, etc, until we got all lazy, entitled, and myopic. Check history - eg 'fall of the Empire' - Persia, Rome, Britain, etc.

[Minimal Justice System]

Seriously...... This thread is begining to annoy me more than racism!!

Someone please make it go away!!

[arafel]

Seriously...... This thread is begining to annoy me more than racism!!

Someone please make it go away!!

+1.

My apologies.. I got caught up in the fervor... I blame the swine flu.

Done

[scott nathaniel]

Seriously...... This thread is begining to annoy me more than racism!!

Someone please make it go away!!

This thread will lead to harder and more dangerous threads, just ask Helen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEpyLzHeozY

[H20nly]

Illegal immigration DOES NOT FUCKING WORK. Got that?

Seems like its working just fine.


@ Tone Deft I really really really see what you meant now. Lesson learned.

This thread is out of control. I thought it would be an interesting topic with so many people from different countries on the forum. Instead, its mostly a bunch of name calling and statistics from a bunch of agencies that couldn't possibly know how much undocumented workers cost because they're "undocumented". Its like guessing what kind of day we're having with your eyes closed. You can only get so close.

Please don't reply to post if you intend on dragging me into this immigration issue. I don't really care that much. I just can't help myself. I posted very early on in this thread when I thought it was simply about racism. If I've learned anything from this its that there is nothing simple about it. John Gordon was even going to shoot me because he actually thought I am a racist. I was attempting to contribute. At this point there is nothing more to contribute.

[3dot...]

who started this stupid thing anyways...?!

[stringtapper]

They killed & stole 'texas' from the legal mexican settlers there.

Go read some Texas history pal. Not only were the Anglo settlers invited by the Mexican governement to come to Texas in the first place, but many of those "legal mexican settlers" you speak of were Tejanos that fought with the Anglos against the Mexican government during the Revolution.

[arafel]

To Stringtrapper,

Re: Texas history,

Every regions history is far too deep, interesting & convoluted to truly and completely summarize in half a sentence. That was not my intention. Nor was it to insult your heritage or heartstrings.

My synopsis (killed & stole texas f/ mexican settlers) was a simplified and exaggerated counter-example to Dr.X's belief that our forefathers of old where perfect & hard-working angels to be whole-heartedly emulated. Unfortunately, our very existance today is predicated upon the blood spilt by our ancestors, somewhere in our struggle for survival.

Blood spilt, people displaced, neighbor against neighbor are the hallmarks of any war/ revolution - no matter the circumstances or results.

I can only quote Frank Herbert - 'There are no innocents'.


I would be happy to continue a discourse elsewhere, as this thread has bad mojo. Or just recommend a good book on Texas. I'd buy ya beer and you could tell me in person.. but its a 3/4 day drive.

[stringtapper]

To Stringtrapper,

Re: Texas history,

Every regions history is far too deep, interesting & convoluted to truly and completely summarize in half a sentence. That was not my intention. Nor was it to insult your heritage or heartstrings.

My synopsis (killed & stole texas f/ mexican settlers) was a simplified and exaggerated counter-example to Dr.X's belief that our forefathers of old where perfect & hard-working angels to be whole-heartedly emulated. Unfortunately, our very existance today is predicated upon the blood spilt by our ancestors, somewhere in our struggle for survival.

Blood spilt, people displaced, neighbor against neighbor are the hallmarks of any war/ revolution - no matter the circumstances or results.

I can only quote Frank Herbert - 'There are no innocents'.

No problem. I'm a native Texan and as you probably have heard some of us have a tendency to get uppity when it comes to talking about our "country."


This reminds me of my favorite line from the latest Bond film:

James Bond: You know I was just wondering what South America would look like if nobody gave a damn about coke or communism. It always impressed me the way you boys would carve this place up.

Felix Leiter: I'll take that as a compliment coming from a Brit.

[Tone Deft]

I love messing with Texas.

[adventurepants_]

arent all the best things about Texas byproducts of Mexican/Latin culture anway?

Food, Music, Place names, Cowboy (Gaucho) history and culture, political assassinations etc....

[adventurepants_]

They killed & stole 'texas' from the legal mexican settlers there.

Go read some Texas history pal. Not only were the Anglo settlers invited by the Mexican governement to come to Texas in the first place, but many of those "legal mexican settlers" you speak of were Tejanos that fought with the Anglos against the Mexican government during the Revolution.

and then the Mexican govt outlawed further anglo settlement, due in part to the Texan settlers use of slavery which had been outlawed in Mexico in 1830 and pressure from the US to buy the territory. The Texans then revolted with help from the US govt. The Mexicans invited the US settlers in good faith to help them settle the newly opened territory, not to revolt and take the territory away.

Its pretty interesting history. Mexicans invite settlers in, settlers want to secede from Mexico due to increasing centralisation of Mexican power. Settlers then form independent Republic of Texas for 10 years. . US government then casts its eye over the delicious goodness of Texas (and to add another pro slavery state to the confederacy) and takes it for itself, over the protests of the now indpendent settlers.

history repeats over and over and over. Wouldnt you just love the irony if the Mexican illegals decide they want to form an indpendent state in Texas now?

[stringtapper]

arent all the best things about Texas byproducts of Mexican/Latin culture anway?

Food, Music, Place names, Cowboy (Gaucho) history and culture, political assassinations etc....

Sure, and those are byproducts of the combination of European (Spanish) cultures and that of the indigenous peoples of North America (Northern tribes, Aztec, etc.). There were European influences on the culture from the Spaniards long before the English/German/etc. ever set foot here.