ot : RACISM...

[stringtapper]

I don't give a rats rosy red ass if your are Tuvan Throat singing Queen from the Mongolian version of New Orleans.

[adventurepants_]

Some people dont understand their history.

The reason that every country in the Western world has increased immigration (either legally, or allowing illegals to come in and work) is very simple.

The baby boomer generation after WW2 bred like rabbits. The boom times that followed are a direct result of this massive increase in population. Public services and wealth followed from the massive tax revenue this generated, and the rise of family planning and contraception now meant that the western middle classes are having less children, less often than they were after the war. Also as they become more educated and used to their prosperous lifestyles, they take up white collar jobs, leaving noone to do the dirty work.

Now we are at a point where people are dying off faster than they are being born, which will mean a massive drop in the standard of living for western countries uf these people are not replaced. Someone needs to do the dirty work(illegal immigration), someone needs to pay taxes. (legal immigration)

Immigrants do the dirty work, and have more children. The governments know this, which is why illegals are allowed. The main reason that there is a problem with making the illegals legal, is cultural. Whitey is more than happy to have the immigrants do the dirty work, but they dont want them to be made full citizens, as they are scared of the cultural changes this will bring.

White western culture is declining, and will hopefully be replaced by a synthesis of many cultures, as is happening. Will the newcomers (ie the Latins in the US, the Muslims in Europe) take over culturally? Assimilate into western christian society? or a synthesis of both?

I for one hope that this process spells the end of the waltz and polka, and the cementing of african and indian polyrhythms into western culture!

[Homebelly]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, so i have no idea if your attitude has changed any.
But i would have to say after reading this, your problem isn't illegal immigrants, its willful ignorance.
You have absolutly no fuckin idea what you are talking about.
I would go so far as to say you probably have had no actual real contact with any "Illegals"
In fact, i would bet good money that your interpretation of "Illegal" is probably
just your way of saying "Mexican".

This post is probably if not the most, then definitely one of the most pig ignorant rants i have ever seen on a non
racist forum.

What a fucking douche you are.

My, my, my...what do we have here? coming from a talentless experimenter wannabe, you sure managed to use the better part of your creative imagination on this little post, huh?

Listen your ass holiness, growing up in rural Michigan, my best friends were "Mexicans" as you call them. Mario & Raymond were the best friends I could ever hope for, and you know what? Their mom and dad both came straight here from Mexico the seemingly impossible way according to most here. The LEGAL FRONT DOOR way you turd breathin' magic dragon.

The difference between them and the shit that's sliding down hill this way these days is that they possessed something that seems to be absent within the latest self servicing installment of "who wants own a lawn mower and a bicycle". It's called PRIDE Sir. The same type of pride that it takes to REALLY learn and SPEAK a new language. The same type of healthy pride that is required to TRULY appreciate the opportunity that you have received. But Nooooo (as in, my wittle pussy hurts) it's all so much more difficult and unfair than that, isn't it? You bet it is wittle fella.

What's wrong here Homeboy? Did I strike a chord? Like maybe you're an illegal? I don't give a rats rosy red ass if your are Tuvan Throat singing Queen from the Mongolian version of New Orleans. It's your level of intelligence and completely non objective understanding that is the REAL problem. You are too busy justifying your clueless rebellion and pretend subversive pseudo intellectual poser potbelly to get your head out of your ass.

Get a real job and take a bath. Maybe it'll clear the air enough for you to make sense of it all.

[john gordon]

ahhhh michigan.....this explains everything,you're excused.

[DrXparaMental]

I grew up in South Texas right by the Mexican border. I got picked on all through school for being white. I had to fight and I had to keep my mouth shut or risk fighting more... I was the minority.

My mother and (biological) father are from the U.K. When my mother left my step dad and I was about 11 or 12 years old. We moved to the U.K. where in that enviroment I was picked on for being a Yank. No where near as bad, but singled out none-the-less.

In 1996 I got arrested in Mobile Alabama when I was passing through with 12 pounds of weed. I got thrown in jail then prison for 3 years that were predominately filled with blacks. I understand what it is like to be descriminated against because of my skin color for above mentioned reasons. So, when the Arian Brotherhood wanted me to join their cause, I rode alone. This of course caused the whites to alienate me too. As a group it was actually the Muslims in prison who were the most noble and understanding of all who I came across.

Racism is a double edged sword and there are a lot of things that Americans of all colors forget. One of the things that bothers me most about a lot of Hip-Hop music that you see on TV is that the same fucker who is talking down about whites and talking up "his" people is wearing a big Diamond ear ring. Where did that diamond come from? What mine and under what conditions? Also, not all slaves were "stolen" from their homes by whites which is the common accusation. Many of them were purchased from blacks who sold them because they had captured them as the spoils of war.

My forefathers are long gone. Who were they. I don't know. Could I be different? - Indeed.

Racism is a crutch that has become a kickstand.

Amazing. I missed this post the first time around at work today and that was indeed my loss. I agree and how exactly could anyone not? There is much sickening glory and loud celebration among the incredibly ignorant and fear infested pastry people. Those that wear the tinsel that decorate the dedicated followers of blind fashion, echo on and on. Empty and dangerous. Primarily to themselves and those stupid enough to commensurate their contagious misery. Let your wisdom flow H2Only. I'll certainly always welcome it.

[Homebelly]

I grew up in South Texas right by the Mexican border. I got picked on all through school for being white. I had to fight and I had to keep my mouth shut or risk fighting more... I was the minority.

My mother and (biological) father are from the U.K. When my mother left my step dad and I was about 11 or 12 years old. We moved to the U.K. where in that enviroment I was picked on for being a Yank. No where near as bad, but singled out none-the-less.

In 1996 I got arrested in Mobile Alabama when I was passing through with 12 pounds of weed. I got thrown in jail then prison for 3 years that were predominately filled with blacks. I understand what it is like to be descriminated against because of my skin color for above mentioned reasons. So, when the Arian Brotherhood wanted me to join their cause, I rode alone. This of course caused the whites to alienate me too. As a group it was actually the Muslims in prison who were the most noble and understanding of all who I came across.

Racism is a double edged sword and there are a lot of things that Americans of all colors forget. One of the things that bothers me most about a lot of Hip-Hop music that you see on TV is that the same fucker who is talking down about whites and talking up "his" people is wearing a big Diamond ear ring. Where did that diamond come from? What mine and under what conditions? Also, not all slaves were "stolen" from their homes by whites which is the common accusation. Many of them were purchased from blacks who sold them because they had captured them as the spoils of war.

My forefathers are long gone. Who were they. I don't know. Could I be different? - Indeed.

Racism is a crutch that has become a kickstand.

Amazing. I missed this post the first time around at work today and that was indeed my loss. I agree and how exactly could anyone not? There is much sickening glory and loud celebration among the incredibly ignorant and fear infested pastry people. Those that wear the tinsel that decorate the dedicated followers of blind fashion, echo on and on. Empty and dangerous. Primarily to themselves and those stupid enough to commensurate their contagious misery. Let your wisdom flow H2Only. I'll certainly always welcome it.

Wow!!..
Wait!
I get it now...
Your Ted Nugent!!!
That is so cool..
Cat scratch fever was one of the first songs i learned.

[DrXparaMental]

LM,
There are many here that are far from the Choir, but I know that you are 100% right. I have felt what you felt in this post a thousand times if once. Distraction is their ultimate means to an ends that is nothing short of "divide and stay conquered" in working form. That's precisely why they are leaving the Internet alone for the time being. It works wonderfully as it deflates angst while elucidating all possible threats from the restless masses. You could say it's a post modern confessional minus the external dogmatic guilt trip. We all get to bring our own (dogma) don't we? When we are *Little Kings one and all, revolution seems obsolete.


*not to be confused with the original evil little green bottle.

yep...you are right. <takes a few steps back> sigh.

[Android Bishop]

I'm in the middle of a history class focusing on the first half of American history, and its astounding how many of the same arguments being made for the necessity of illegal immigrants in our economy are the same that were made for the necessity of slaves in colonial and post-revolutionary America. We did just fine after ending slavery and we can do just fine using legal labor without supporting widespread use of illegal immigrants.

[aisling]

I for one hope that this process spells the cementing of african and indian polyrhythms into western culture!

+1

[Machinesworking]

besides, aren't the real criminals the businesses that are hiring these illegals under the table? They do it because they don't have to pay a fair wage, don't have to buy health insurance, and because they will work at undesirable jobs for insane hours without overtime.

Dead on. I work construction, and I'm directly affected by this, but I don't blame the workers, I blame the cheap assholes that hire them.

[DrXparaMental]

I grew up in South Texas right by the Mexican border. I got picked on all through school for being white. I had to fight and I had to keep my mouth shut or risk fighting more... I was the minority.

My mother and (biological) father are from the U.K. When my mother left my step dad and I was about 11 or 12 years old. We moved to the U.K. where in that enviroment I was picked on for being a Yank. No where near as bad, but singled out none-the-less.

In 1996 I got arrested in Mobile Alabama when I was passing through with 12 pounds of weed. I got thrown in jail then prison for 3 years that were predominately filled with blacks. I understand what it is like to be descriminated against because of my skin color for above mentioned reasons. So, when the Arian Brotherhood wanted me to join their cause, I rode alone. This of course caused the whites to alienate me too. As a group it was actually the Muslims in prison who were the most noble and understanding of all who I came across.

Racism is a double edged sword and there are a lot of things that Americans of all colors forget. One of the things that bothers me most about a lot of Hip-Hop music that you see on TV is that the same fucker who is talking down about whites and talking up "his" people is wearing a big Diamond ear ring. Where did that diamond come from? What mine and under what conditions? Also, not all slaves were "stolen" from their homes by whites which is the common accusation. Many of them were purchased from blacks who sold them because they had captured them as the spoils of war.

My forefathers are long gone. Who were they. I don't know. Could I be different? - Indeed.

Racism is a crutch that has become a kickstand.

Amazing. I missed this post the first time around at work today and that was indeed my loss. I agree and how exactly could anyone not? There is much sickening glory and loud celebration among the incredibly ignorant and fear infested pastry people. Those that wear the tinsel that decorate the dedicated followers of blind fashion, echo on and on. Empty and dangerous. Primarily to themselves and those stupid enough to commensurate their contagious misery. Let your wisdom flow H2Only. I'll certainly always welcome it.

Wow!!..
Wait!
I get it now...
Your Ted Nugent!!!
That is so cool..
Cat scratch fever was one of the first songs i learned.

I apologize HB. That first untalented part was exceptionally uncalled for. Didn't mean to overtly step on you there. I just cannot, and will not, be mistaken for a "racist" because of my staunch views on illegal immigration. It seemed like you were kind of serious so I let go.

Whether your heroes include Don Juan (of Castaneda fame of course!), Jimi Hendrix, Ravi Shankar, Hiro Yanagida, Holger Czukay or Joe Maize & His Chordsmen for that matter, a love of music and esoteric ethnicity and it's influences within music, teaches us early on that racial diversity is crucial. Yet, at the very same time, music makes it abundantly clear that deep down inside we are all intrinsically the same.

Music is no respecter of race or human beings for that matter.

It's interesting to note that in several prominent African religions concerning their creation myths, musical instruments predated mankind and were in fact responsible for men's creation for which to play them. Humbling.

and Nope, I'm not terrible Ted. Although being an absolute early hero of mine, Rob Grange is one of the coolest people I have ever personally communicated with. A true Bass Player's Bass Player and an extremely sharp human being though and through.

[scott nathaniel]

It's interesting to note that in several prominent African religions concerning their creation myths, musical instruments predated mankind and were in fact responsible for men's creation for which to play them. Humbling.

Before the word there was banjo.

[adventurepants_]

I'm in the middle of a history class focusing on the first half of American history, and its astounding how many of the same arguments being made for the necessity of illegal immigrants in our economy are the same that were made for the necessity of slaves in colonial and post-revolutionary America. We did just fine after ending slavery and we can do just fine using legal labor without supporting widespread use of illegal immigrants.

id give you a C for that. You cant compare the economies of pre civil war US and the modern US.

Slavery was used to prop up the Southern elites, while there was still a massive poor white working class to do the other menial jobs. The modern economy is based on the consumption of goods and sevices by a majority white lower-middle class shrinking in number, and it needs the illegitimate Latino workers to fill the void to maintain the same standard of living.

[Android Bishop]

I'm in the middle of a history class focusing on the first half of American history, and its astounding how many of the same arguments being made for the necessity of illegal immigrants in our economy are the same that were made for the necessity of slaves in colonial and post-revolutionary America. We did just fine after ending slavery and we can do just fine using legal labor without supporting widespread use of illegal immigrants.

id give you a C for that. You cant compare the economies of pre civil war US and the modern US.

Slavery was used to prop up the Southern elites, while there was still a massive poor white working class to do the other menial jobs. The modern economy is based on the consumption of goods and sevices by a majority white lower-middle class shrinking in number, and it needs the illegitimate Latino workers to fill the void to maintain the same standard of living.

No it doesn't. Everyone just says that because that is how it is now and nobody wants to admit that it is quite possible to maintain our economy any other way. Plenty of poor farmers used slave labor in the south too, and all of the main arguments to maintain slavery was that it was impossible to maintain the economy without it. Well, clearly wasn't true, was it? If we need a massive illegal immigrant workforce to prop up our standard of living, then our economy is clearly not reflective of the labor laws and institutions
we have erected. We need to stop this shit and get our culture and economy in line.

All this crap about "nobody else would do the job" is bullshit. Legal citizens would do these jobs, they'd probably just demand wages reflective of the economic realities of living in this country (legally, paying for taxes and whatnot) and therefore force the rest of the economy to respond in turn. Before illegal immigrants were mowing my family's lawns we had a japanese american (legit citizen) who charged more but did far better work for our gardens. When I was in new york, it was a ton of different types of people doing the shit jobs, but clearly most of them US citizens. Poor underclass, yes, but citizens nonetheless. And why did it work? Because they were unionized and were making legitimate wages, which makes the cost of living in new york more in line with economic reality. This is how it should be for the entire country. If we cant afford our lifestyle without an underpaid illegal immigrant workforce, then we must be forced to adapt our lifestyle to one that can afford it.

[adventurepants_]

I'm in the middle of a history class focusing on the first half of American history, and its astounding how many of the same arguments being made for the necessity of illegal immigrants in our economy are the same that were made for the necessity of slaves in colonial and post-revolutionary America. We did just fine after ending slavery and we can do just fine using legal labor without supporting widespread use of illegal immigrants.

id give you a C for that. You cant compare the economies of pre civil war US and the modern US.

Slavery was used to prop up the Southern elites, while there was still a massive poor white working class to do the other menial jobs. The modern economy is based on the consumption of goods and sevices by a majority white lower-middle class shrinking in number, and it needs the illegitimate Latino workers to fill the void to maintain the same standard of living.

No it doesn't. Everyone just says that because that is how it is now and nobody wants to admit that it is quite possible to maintain our economy any other way. Plenty of poor farmers used slave labor in the south too, and all of the main arguments to maintain slavery was that it was impossible to maintain the economy without it. Well, clearly wasn't true, was it? If we need a massive illegal immigrant workforce to prop up our standard of living, then our economy is clearly not reflective of the labor laws and institutions
we have erected. We need to stop this shit and get our culture and economy in line.

All this crap about "nobody else would do the job" is bullshit. Legal citizens would do these jobs, they'd probably just demand wages reflective of the economic realities of living in this country (legally, paying for taxes and whatnot) and therefore force the rest of the economy to respond in turn. Before illegal immigrants were mowing my family's lawns we had a japanese american (legit citizen) who charged more but did far better work for our gardens. When I was in new york, it was a ton of different types of people doing the shit jobs, but clearly most of them US citizens. Poor underclass, yes, but citizens nonetheless. And why did it work? Because they were unionized and were making legitimate wages, which makes the cost of living in new york more in line with economic reality. This is how it should be for the entire country. If we cant afford our lifestyle without an underpaid illegal immigrant workforce, then we must be forced to adapt our lifestyle to one that can afford it.

yes, youre right. Unfortunately the problem is that the vast majority of westerners demand either the same or higher standard of living than their parents. Capitalism dictates a perpetual growth in order to maintain stability. Those children of Japanese immigrants are now the middle class and need someone to mow their lawns. If there are not enough poor citizens to do that, you either do it yourself, or use other available cheap labour.

What youre proposing is that the State somehow take over the economy, and dictate what standard of living the citizens have, to reflect the birth rate and tax base. Last time I checked, those sort of socialist ideas are not that popular in the States, or in Britain.