ot : RACISM...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by DrXparaMental » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:52 pm

fishmonkey wrote:
DrXparaMental wrote: Absolutely, but this is just a small/huge part of the problem. The biggest part that I can see is how the influx of illegals is aiding the elimination of the middle class. If it continues the way it presently is, jokers here want to talk about elitism? Get a clue people. Your way of thinking is inviting the most grand and sickening elitism imaginable.

Android, WTF is wrong with the intelligence of the average person commenting in this thread? It's just simple math. The illegal immigration issue is creating a vacuous and powerless underclass here the United States. It's the single biggest contributor to fully disabling the last fragile leverage that the legitimate citizens have. Has no one here heard the old saying "there is power in numbers"? Illegal immigration DESTROYS the numbers. How ridiculously simple and yet there is this pervading sense of bleeding heart "cut your nose off to spite your face" mentality. Blows my mind.
i know consistent logic is not your strong point, but you can't have it both ways... either illegal immigration is a relatively small problem that still deserves virulent opposition (like you argue in some posts) or it is a massive, hideous blight on American democracy... which is it?

so let me get this straight, your theory is that illegal immigration is directly resulting in the "elimination of the middle class"? i.e. the whole of the middle class is becoming an underclass because of illegal immigration? once again that is a grand claim that you have provided no substantiation for...
I know that a solid working familiarity with the animated quality of the English language is not one of your strong points either. It is an extremely bizarre and illogical language to begin with so slow down before you chime in impulsively.

When I stated small/huge (or whatever), what I meant is "surface level" (to the eye) small, and the impact on society and it's citizens, huge. No real conflict there. The issue here however is one that is exceptionally multifaceted in it's negative effects on EVERYONE involved. That includes the illegal immigrants themselves.

Directly, no. Indirectly, absolutely. By design, possibly. Is it happening? Absofuckinglutely.

You know, you really come off as a simpleton. Either that or you are just very young and for that I can excuse your hormones in play. Otherwise, you're tiny and just making a defense stand based on ulterior motives.

Please quote me where I stated that illegal immigration is the sole and largest contributing factor to the elimination of the middle class. If you can't, WTF are you REALLY trying to do here?

If you are trying to understand, please begin by asking honest and respectful questions. Not by making grandiose assumptions that feebly attempt to undermine the intelligence of those with different view points than that of your own.

The elimination of the Middle Class in the United States has been underway since the elimination of the gold standard. I am simply sating that illegal immigration is most assuredly aiding that process. Of the many, it's the worst and most obvious repercussive negative effect(IMO)that I can see as a spin off of illegal immigration. Stop attempting to make me out to be some conspiracy nut. This all TOO common sense and that's what bothers me most.

Apparently it's YOU that's been watching too many X file reruns. :wink:

fishmonkey
Posts: 4099
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by fishmonkey » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:09 pm

Dr X,

as i suggested, read all of your posts again, or even just the whole of your latest one... you contradict your own words over and over again, and tweak your latest opinions to respond to the most recent criticisms, often disregarding your earlier statements... that's one of the inherent weaknesses of arguing from a perspective of anger and disrespect for others...

"The illegal immigration issue is creating a vacuous and powerless underclass here the United States. It's the single biggest contributor to fully disabling the last fragile leverage that the legitimate citizens have." — DrX

DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by DrXparaMental » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:01 pm

fishmonkey wrote:Dr X,

as i suggested, read all of your posts again, or even just the whole of your latest one... you contradict your own words over and over again, and tweak your latest opinions to respond to the most recent criticisms, often disregarding your earlier statements... that's one of the inherent weaknesses of arguing from a perspective of anger and disrespect for others...

"The illegal immigration issue is creating a vacuous and powerless underclass here the United States. It's the single biggest contributor to fully disabling the last fragile leverage that the legitimate citizens have." — DrX

Dude or Dudette, would you PLEASE STOP pretending to be smart. Ever heard of the term context? Man, I am attempting to not call you a fucking idiot, but how can I?

Lets look at what I posted:

This - is - a - paragraph. Do - you - know - why - we - use - paragraphs?

They are used to SEPARATE different subject matter and change context. They are also used in reference to dialog to denote the separation of those communicating.

Please note how that in the first paragraph the term "middle class" is used and how in the second paragraph that you attempted to manipulate, it is not.

Please note the reference to "underclass", NOT the elimination of "the middle class" Note how I begin by even addressing a different individual rather than making a generalized statement. This paragraph refers to the dilution of representation (the vote), NOT the elimination of "the middle class". That is what the reference is to "simple math" is about.

PLEASE quit while you are ahead unless you REALLY want to learn something.


Absolutely, but this is just a small/huge part of the problem. The biggest part that I can see is how the influx of illegals is aiding the elimination of the middle class. If it continues the way it presently is, jokers here want to talk about elitism? Get a clue people. Your way of thinking is inviting the most grand and sickening elitism imaginable

Android, WTF is wrong with the intelligence of the average person commenting in this thread? It's just simple math. The illegal immigration issue is creating a vacuous and powerless underclass here the United States. It's the single biggest contributor to fully disabling the last fragile leverage that the legitimate citizens have. Has no one here heard the old saying "there is power in numbers"? Illegal immigration DESTROYS the numbers. How ridiculously simple and yet there is this pervading sense of bleeding heart "cut your nose off to spite your face" mentality. Blows my mind.

spkey
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:11 am
Location: Second attention

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by spkey » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:28 pm

DrXparaMental wrote:
spkey wrote:illegal immigrants who don't pay their taxes...
I wonder how many natives do exactly the same...

What's your point? 2 wrongs don't make a right. Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes mostly because they are not recognized in the system and therefore because of the way the system operates, they can't unless they declare themselves and immediately they would be deported if they did. This is NOT an ethics issue, nor is it a racism issue. The reason I brought it up was because MANY people (such as a number of morons here) confuse the recognition of immense negative repercussions of illegal immigration as one being underlined by racism. That's absolutely STUPID and completely manipulative if the person making the claim has even the semblance of a brain to begin with. People that evade paying taxes that are LEGAL "natives" BREAK THE LAW and are recognized as such by the system they are participating within.
My point is your issue is tax evasion and not illegal immigration since you accept both immigrants and natives do it.

If you think this is not an ethics or racism issue why did you bring the subject in the first place? The thread is clearly about racism and not illegal immigration.

sp.

fishmonkey
Posts: 4099
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by fishmonkey » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:33 pm

DrXparaMental wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:Dr X,

as i suggested, read all of your posts again, or even just the whole of your latest one... you contradict your own words over and over again, and tweak your latest opinions to respond to the most recent criticisms, often disregarding your earlier statements... that's one of the inherent weaknesses of arguing from a perspective of anger and disrespect for others...

"The illegal immigration issue is creating a vacuous and powerless underclass here the United States. It's the single biggest contributor to fully disabling the last fragile leverage that the legitimate citizens have." — DrX

Dude or Dudette, would you PLEASE STOP pretending to be smart. Ever heard of the term context? Man, I am attempting to not call you a fucking idiot, but how can I?

Lets look at what I posted:

This - is - a - paragraph. Do - you - know - why - we - use - paragraphs?

They are used to SEPARATE different subject matter and change context. They are also used in reference to dialog to denote the separation of those communicating.

Please note how that in the first paragraph the term "middle class" is used and how in the second paragraph that you attempted to manipulate, it is not.

Please note the reference to "underclass", NOT the elimination of "the middle class" Note how I begin by even addressing a different individual rather than making a generalized statement. This paragraph refers to the dilution of representation (the vote), NOT the elimination of "the middle class". That is what the reference is to "simple math" is about.

PLEASE quit while you are ahead unless you REALLY want to learn something.


Absolutely, but this is just a small/huge part of the problem. The biggest part that I can see is how the influx of illegals is aiding the elimination of the middle class. If it continues the way it presently is, jokers here want to talk about elitism? Get a clue people. Your way of thinking is inviting the most grand and sickening elitism imaginable

Android, WTF is wrong with the intelligence of the average person commenting in this thread? It's just simple math. The illegal immigration issue is creating a vacuous and powerless underclass here the United States. It's the single biggest contributor to fully disabling the last fragile leverage that the legitimate citizens have. Has no one here heard the old saying "there is power in numbers"? Illegal immigration DESTROYS the numbers. How ridiculously simple and yet there is this pervading sense of bleeding heart "cut your nose off to spite your face" mentality. Blows my mind.
Dr X, thanks for the pointers on paragraphs...

please excuse me for connecting the dots between your grand ideas and assuming that the elimination of the middle class would result in a growing under class... or did i interpret you wrong, and were you really suggesting that the eliminated middle class would simply vanish from the face of the earth? or perhaps this endangered middle class be swelling the ranks of the so-called elite classes instead?

mmm, sorry, i really should have realised that joining-of-dots and wild-flailing-stabbings-in-the-dark are incompatible...

sigh

DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by DrXparaMental » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:08 pm

fishmonkey wrote:
DrXparaMental wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:Dr X,

as i suggested, read all of your posts again, or even just the whole of your latest one... you contradict your own words over and over again, and tweak your latest opinions to respond to the most recent criticisms, often disregarding your earlier statements... that's one of the inherent weaknesses of arguing from a perspective of anger and disrespect for others...

"The illegal immigration issue is creating a vacuous and powerless underclass here the United States. It's the single biggest contributor to fully disabling the last fragile leverage that the legitimate citizens have." — DrX

Dude or Dudette, would you PLEASE STOP pretending to be smart. Ever heard of the term context? Man, I am attempting to not call you a fucking idiot, but how can I?

Lets look at what I posted:

This - is - a - paragraph. Do - you - know - why - we - use - paragraphs?

They are used to SEPARATE different subject matter and change context. They are also used in reference to dialog to denote the separation of those communicating.

Please note how that in the first paragraph the term "middle class" is used and how in the second paragraph that you attempted to manipulate, it is not.

Please note the reference to "underclass", NOT the elimination of "the middle class" Note how I begin by even addressing a different individual rather than making a generalized statement. This paragraph refers to the dilution of representation (the vote), NOT the elimination of "the middle class". That is what the reference is to "simple math" is about.

PLEASE quit while you are ahead unless you REALLY want to learn something.


Absolutely, but this is just a small/huge part of the problem. The biggest part that I can see is how the influx of illegals is aiding the elimination of the middle class. If it continues the way it presently is, jokers here want to talk about elitism? Get a clue people. Your way of thinking is inviting the most grand and sickening elitism imaginable

Android, WTF is wrong with the intelligence of the average person commenting in this thread? It's just simple math. The illegal immigration issue is creating a vacuous and powerless underclass here the United States. It's the single biggest contributor to fully disabling the last fragile leverage that the legitimate citizens have. Has no one here heard the old saying "there is power in numbers"? Illegal immigration DESTROYS the numbers. How ridiculously simple and yet there is this pervading sense of bleeding heart "cut your nose off to spite your face" mentality. Blows my mind.
Dr X, thanks for the pointers on paragraphs...

please excuse me for connecting the dots between your grand ideas and assuming that the elimination of the middle class would result in a growing under class... or did i interpret you wrong, and were you really suggesting that the eliminated middle class would simply vanish from the face of the earth? or perhaps this endangered middle class be swelling the ranks of the so-called elite classes instead?

mmm, sorry, i really should have realised that joining-of-dots and wild-flailing-stabbings-in-the-dark are incompatible...

sigh
more sarcasm from the ignorant :roll:

DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by DrXparaMental » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:10 pm

spkey wrote:
DrXparaMental wrote:
spkey wrote:illegal immigrants who don't pay their taxes...
I wonder how many natives do exactly the same...

What's your point? 2 wrongs don't make a right. Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes mostly because they are not recognized in the system and therefore because of the way the system operates, they can't unless they declare themselves and immediately they would be deported if they did. This is NOT an ethics issue, nor is it a racism issue. The reason I brought it up was because MANY people (such as a number of morons here) confuse the recognition of immense negative repercussions of illegal immigration as one being underlined by racism. That's absolutely STUPID and completely manipulative if the person making the claim has even the semblance of a brain to begin with. People that evade paying taxes that are LEGAL "natives" BREAK THE LAW and are recognized as such by the system they are participating within.
My point is your issue is tax evasion and not illegal immigration since you accept both immigrants and natives do it.

If you think this is not an ethics or racism issue why did you bring the subject in the first place? The thread is clearly about racism and not illegal immigration.

sp.
fail. Beyond lame. If you are going to respond to my posts, please learn to read or at very least stop being too lazy to read what I have written.

spkey
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:11 am
Location: Second attention

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by spkey » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:13 pm

DrXparaMental wrote:fail. Beyond lame. If you are going to respond to my posts, please learn to read or at very least stop being too lazy to read what I have written.
I've read what you wrote. I'm quoting your first post:
DrXparaMental wrote:Being intolerant in a vocal and yet not violent manner, toward those who infiltrate and take advantage of your country just to escape their own bullshit mess however, is something altogether different.
I'm telling you, people take advantage whether they're immigrants or not.

scott nathaniel
Posts: 668
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:52 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by scott nathaniel » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:26 pm

Dr. X,
You've laid all your cards on the table. You've manipulated and inverted your insults to a level of art. Now, take this eloquence to a place where it can be more effective. We can't help you. Your strategy is a complete fail, if it's numbers you're after. Perhaps you've been antagonized; you've antagonized as well. "two wrongs don't negate each other" ----- Your quote, or at least a feasible paraphrase.
Find some peace, sir. This ain't the way nor is it the place. Same thing applies to me and the rest.
/end scott soapbox

DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by DrXparaMental » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:48 pm

spkey wrote:
DrXparaMental wrote:fail. Beyond lame. If you are going to respond to my posts, please learn to read or at very least stop being too lazy to read what I have written.
I've read what you wrote. I'm quoting your first post:
DrXparaMental wrote:Being intolerant in a vocal and yet not violent manner, toward those who infiltrate and take advantage of your country just to escape their own bullshit mess however, is something altogether different.
I'm telling you, people take advantage whether they're immigrants or not.
and I responded specifically to that fact. what is your point? That's what I meant by the "you're not reading what I wrote"

where is your response to my specific counter?

DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by DrXparaMental » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:05 pm

scott nathaniel wrote:Dr. X,
You've laid all your cards on the table. You've manipulated and inverted your insults to a level of art. Now, take this eloquence to a place where it can be more effective. We can't help you. Your strategy is a complete fail, if it's numbers you're after. Perhaps you've been antagonized; you've antagonized as well. "two wrongs don't negate each other" ----- Your quote, or at least a feasible paraphrase.
Find some peace, sir. This ain't the way nor is it the place. Same thing applies to me and the rest.
/end scott soapbox
Scott
if 6 was 9, I don't mind, I don't mind, cause I've got my own world to live through and I ain't going to copy you.

You have never shown any proof of anything opposite what I have stated from the beginning. So no, no fail whatsoever.

You and those of your defensive posture would like me to stop voicing the reality of the issue and that is specifically because you have no effective counter. I am not out to convince anyone of anything. I am just stating that illegal immigration is a VERY bad thing for specific reasons that have ZERO to do with racism. That's all I have stated from the beginning and I continue to state that. I don't really care about how you "feel". I care about my reality that is being shit on by illegals. Period. The same illegals shit on other immigrants seeking legitimate naturalization from their native countries the exact same way. Accept it or not. I don't care. It's simply the truth and not you, nor anyone else, can change that truth.

It's funny how people revert to basically telling others to stop posting or expressing themselves concerning an issue when they have an infinite number of choices to avoid outside the one they are futilely attempting to negate by making. :?
Last edited by DrXparaMental on Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

scott nathaniel
Posts: 668
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:52 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by scott nathaniel » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:10 pm

DrXparaMental wrote:
scott nathaniel wrote:Dr. X,
You've laid all your cards on the table. You've manipulated and inverted your insults to a level of art. Now, take this eloquence to a place where it can be more effective. We can't help you. Your strategy is a complete fail, if it's numbers you're after. Perhaps you've been antagonized; you've antagonized as well. "two wrongs don't negate each other" ----- Your quote, or at least a feasible paraphrase.
Find some peace, sir. This ain't the way nor is it the place. Same thing applies to me and the rest.
/end scott soapbox
Scott
if 6 was 9, I don't mind, I don;t mind, cause I've got my own world to live through and I ain't going to copy you.

You have never shown any proof of anything opposite what I have stated from the beginning. So no, no fail whatsoever.

You and those of your defensive posture would like me to stop voicing the reality of the issue and that is specifically because you have no effective counter. I am not out to convince anyone of anything. I am just stating that illegal immigration is a VERY bad thing for specific reasons that have ZERO to do with racism. That's all I have stated from the beginning and I continue to state that. I don't really care about how you "feel". I care about my reality that is being shit on by illegals. Period. The same illegals shit on other immigrants seeking legitimate naturalization from their native countries the exact same way. Accept it or not. I don't care. It's simply the truth and not you, nor anyone else, can change that truth.

It's funny how people revert to basically telling others to stop posting or expressing themselves concerning an issue when they have an infinite number of choices to avid outside the one they are futilely attempting to negate by making. :?
It was a suggestion to change your strategy, that's all. The numbers statement was in reference to the idea of converts, not your data. I can't refute your opinion. I don't agree with it. Your data may be correct-- I still don't care. If that makes me a bad person then so be it, but it won't be so because you say it's so. At best you'd just be stating the obvious.

DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by DrXparaMental » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:47 pm

scott nathaniel wrote:
DrXparaMental wrote:
scott nathaniel wrote:Dr. X,
You've laid all your cards on the table. You've manipulated and inverted your insults to a level of art. Now, take this eloquence to a place where it can be more effective. We can't help you. Your strategy is a complete fail, if it's numbers you're after. Perhaps you've been antagonized; you've antagonized as well. "two wrongs don't negate each other" ----- Your quote, or at least a feasible paraphrase.
Find some peace, sir. This ain't the way nor is it the place. Same thing applies to me and the rest.
/end scott soapbox
Scott
if 6 was 9, I don't mind, I don;t mind, cause I've got my own world to live through and I ain't going to copy you.

You have never shown any proof of anything opposite what I have stated from the beginning. So no, no fail whatsoever.

You and those of your defensive posture would like me to stop voicing the reality of the issue and that is specifically because you have no effective counter. I am not out to convince anyone of anything. I am just stating that illegal immigration is a VERY bad thing for specific reasons that have ZERO to do with racism. That's all I have stated from the beginning and I continue to state that. I don't really care about how you "feel". I care about my reality that is being shit on by illegals. Period. The same illegals shit on other immigrants seeking legitimate naturalization from their native countries the exact same way. Accept it or not. I don't care. It's simply the truth and not you, nor anyone else, can change that truth.

It's funny how people revert to basically telling others to stop posting or expressing themselves concerning an issue when they have an infinite number of choices to avid outside the one they are futilely attempting to negate by making. :?
It was a suggestion to change your strategy, that's all. The numbers statement was in reference to the idea of converts, not your data. I can't refute your opinion. I don't agree with it. Your data may be correct-- I still don't care. If that makes me a bad person then so be it, but it won't be so because you say it's so. At best you'd just be stating the obvious.
Suggestion duly noted and accepted.

Scott, it's VERY important to stress that the reason why illegal immigration does not work in a good way, is because of the system in the United States that it's taking place in. Sure, there are most definitely a great number of these people that should NOT be here, but there are just as many, maybe more, of those illegal status immigrants that would be a great benefit to this country if only they chose to do so the lame way you presently have to in order to keep from being a detraction to the bigger picture. I realize it's a trick bag Scott, but that's not because I am a racist, it's because of the system being managed so poorly and let go in typical capitalist pig fashion.

This is not a judgment of people. It's a judgment of illegal immigration within a particular system apart from any notions of racism. That's it.

all the name calling and shrewd lingual bullshit coming from me is just meaningless internet level call and response. People will attempt that "you're a racists", "you're double talking" horse shit, and when they do, you bet I'm coming for them. That's because what they are attempting to do is elementary side stepping of the real and undeniable issue. It's a tough thing, I realize.

I apologize for misunderstanding your viewpoint.

scott nathaniel
Posts: 668
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:52 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by scott nathaniel » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:15 pm

DrXparaMental wrote:Scott, it's VERY important to stress that the reason why illegal immigration does not work in a good way, is because of the system in the United States that it's taking place in. Sure, there are most definitely a great number of these people that should NOT be here, but there are just as many, maybe more, of those illegal status immigrants that would be a great benefit to this country if only they chose to do so the lame way you presently have to in order to keep from being a detraction to the bigger picture. I realize it's a trick bag Scott, but that's not because I am a racist, it's because of the system being managed so poorly and let go in typical capitalist pig fashion.
What you wrote above, for me, is a more cogent and less vitriolic way to phrase your case. It takes issue with the system rather than demonizing the individuals who get caught up in the systems darker corners. There will always be people who will take advantage of a system, but there needs to be a more thoughtful and reasoned approach to addressing the issue of why people are coming here. It doesn't serve anyone's purpose to demonize these people in an absolute manner. There are many variable that need to be considered.

stringtapper
Posts: 6272
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:21 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by stringtapper » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:56 pm

scott nathaniel wrote:What you wrote above, for me, is a more cogent and less vitriolic way to phrase your case. It takes issue with the system rather than demonizing the individuals who get caught up in the systems darker corners. There will always be people who will take advantage of a system, but there needs to be a more thoughtful and reasoned approach to addressing the issue of why people are coming here. It doesn't serve anyone's purpose to demonize these people in an absolute manner. There are many variable that need to be considered.
I agree, but then by this logic you would have to say that one should not demonize the employers who hire illegals nor the fat cats at the very tip top who gain from it all. After all they are all benefiting in some way from the "system." Aren't these other two groups therefore just as caught up in other "dark corners" of the system?

People show their bias when they only want to go after one of these groups. It's the South Park thing with Liberal Douche on one side saying, "It's the corporations being all.... corporation-y!!" and Redneck Conservative on the other saying, "Deytukarejaahbss!!!!"
Unsound Designer

Post Reply