ot : RACISM...

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DrXparaMental
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Re: RACISM...

Post by DrXparaMental » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:35 pm

sublimelobc wrote:Dx- You are forgetting that the native americans had all kinds of atrocities committed against them when your (our) immigrating ancestors went looking for a better opportunity for their families and left their more oppressive countries.
Wrong. Those atrocities (which is putting it most "educationally" I might add) were committed MUCH later for entirely different reasons. Typical sickening human conquest. No one is more sickened by what happened to the Native American peoples than myself. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the present illegal immigration issue however.

I would challenge your assertion that you are educated by the fact that you are so closed minded. Any idiot can graduate from high school in the US, all it takes is being foolish enough to be present every day to accomplish that much.
LOL! OK, so tell me, how much distance has to be located between east and west to determine the absolute direction your course of travel is taking you? While you're dealing with the expanse of the educated mind, I'll be kicking it in el Segundo.

The element of the intellectually precise isn't built on the expanse of tolerance friend. People don't debate generalities. Sure, I have my views and some may even be down right fucked up. So convince me with reason. Qualify yourself with reason. But don't think me an uneducated half wit because I don't react like an intellectual leaf in the winds of mind made mediocrity.

Most illegals would gladly pay taxes if provided the opportunity to reside and work legally. I'm guessing that you would have less tax evasion from such illegals than you would from many die hard chest thumping americans.

This is total and complete bullshit. They ARE given that chance. Clearly. No, it's NOT an open ended, everything goes, joy ride of a chance, but what in life is worth anything that is not worth the hard work and effort to attain it by a legitimate course of action?
I would more appropriately change your quote to "Intolerance is assuredly justified as long as it's qualified with fuzzy logic". That sounds like a more honest interpretation of the closed minded/xenophobic or possibly worse logic you are using. It really blows my mind that so many americans believe that the "american dream" and the "land of opportunity" only applies to their ancestors, never applied to the native americans, and shouldn't apply to anybody outside our borders.

True there needs to be some sort of order and law in immigration....if you work here you should pay taxes and not depend on the system, a more liberal policy will achieve that goal quicker than copying the Chinese and building a wall will. (Besides if we deport 15 million illegal mexicans, would there be anybody left still qualified or willing to build such a wall?)
This is just more self serving rhetorical dancing without a shred a factual substantiation. Did you actually state anything of substance here? Nope. Again you forget about the "illegal immigration" part in the most convenient and falsely entitled sense, don't you? The rest is just utter speculation. Centered around the comical notion of conservative wall building? That's pathetic.
Finally, amen to that and something we can agree on! (partly) If only we would let the rest of the world take care of their own problems rather than forcing our will onto them.
Ya think?
Last edited by DrXparaMental on Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sage
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Re: RACISM...

Post by Sage » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:39 pm

DrXparaMental wrote:This is total and complete bullshit. They ARE given that chance. Clearly. No, it's NOT an open ended, everything goes, joy ride of a chance, but what in life is worth anything that is not worth the hard work and effort to attain it by a legitimate course of action
It doesn't quite work like that unfortunately. A lot of people are actually simply conned by criminals in their own country exploiting people's desire to get away. Obviously not every case is like that, but it's not as black & white as you like to think.

jimmynitcher
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Re: RACISM...

Post by jimmynitcher » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:46 pm

has he gone?

DrXparaMental
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Re: RACISM...

Post by DrXparaMental » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:52 pm

Sage wrote:
DrXparaMental wrote:
leisuremuffin wrote:Drx, if you lived a month out of one of these people's lives you might have slightly different perspective.

We're talking about human beings going through some pretty deep shit here, that's something that it is easy to miss when you've never experienced any real hardship in your life.

.lm.
This is true LM, but someone decided to take me to task by insinuating that I am a racist because of my view on illegal immigration. That's just plain horse shit.

What's that old Alvin Lee tune, "I'd Love To Charge The World"

I am certainly not denying the immense and unfair suffering that many the world over are horribly subject to. What motivated us to come here to begin with? It still gives the suffering no right to free load at my expense by not taking the correct channels to naturalize within the US. My wife did. Why can't they? I can answer this question. It's as simple as basic physical laws bare out. It's energy taking the path of least resistance.

There is no legitimate reason.

ANYONE can become a citizen here if they are willing to take a course of action that does actually involve one risk. That's the risk of disappointment.

People can yak and yak about various justifications for the actions of whomever, but when I break the law, there are NO excuses, I go to jail. Why don't they? When the IRS pops me (hypothetically) because I made an error on my tax return and I have to pay the cost with penalties, it's not their concern because 99% don't pay a dime of income tax and neither do their employers. When I get sick or when one of my children breaks a limb, I have to pay or I have my wages garnisheed, not them, their hungry, poor & tired. The tax payers can foot their bill.

I'm sorry man, it just doesn't work. Not with this F'ed system anyway. Besides, isn't there already too many people that can't take care of themselves now in this country? We certainly don;t need anymore.
Illegal immigrants can't freeload though, otherwise they get caught out. Your views aren't based on reality.
Qualify reality with reason. Just stating that is like stating, "it's raining outside where I am at". Kind of meaningless.

Illegal immigrants freeload by working under the table man. What the heck are you talking about?

They freeload when they plop down in an ER somewhere and get patched up and disappear. Happens EVERYDAY.

DrXparaMental
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Re: RACISM...

Post by DrXparaMental » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:54 pm

jimmynitcher wrote:has he gone?

"Thin End" What's up my man? You're an idiot but I wont hold that against you.

leisuremuffin
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Re: RACISM...

Post by leisuremuffin » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:09 pm

DrXparaMental wrote:
They freeload when they plop down in an ER somewhere and get patched up and disappear. Happens EVERYDAY.

Plenty of legal citizens are doing that every day. It's part of whats so fucked up about health care in this country, anybody who doesn't have proper health insurance is doing that. Shit, if i had to go to the ER today, I'd be doing it. I'd wager that there are as many legal citizens doing this as illegals, if not more.



ultimately i think the whole argument against these immigrants based on "i'm paying for them" is horseshit. You might want to actually look into how your tax dollars are being spent and where you're really getting fucked over. It's not illegal immigrants, it's not welfare, it's not any of the social programs that conservacunts like to cry about. It's the military and salvaging corporate interests that should really have you outraged.



.lm.
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H20nly
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Re: RACISM...

Post by H20nly » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:17 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:It's the military and salvaging corporate interests that should really have you outraged.
I for one am fucking outraged.


If an immigrant wants to work here... cool. I think that they should be taxed and pay just like the rest of us though. We don't exactly hand out free passes, but you can't blame someone for wanting to make a better life for themselves legally or illegaly. If being a janitor or a wall builder, for that matter, is what you are willing to do/contribute to society and your own dreams of more... then MORE power to you. Beats the shit out of bumming change on the corner.

leisuremuffin
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Re: RACISM...

Post by leisuremuffin » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:24 pm

i agree. But it's not so easy as showing up and saying, "hey, make me a citizen, i want to pay taxes" If it were, we wouldn't have a problem.


besides, aren't the real criminals the businesses that are hiring these illegals under the table? They do it because they don't have to pay a fair wage, don't have to buy health insurance, and because they will work at undesirable jobs for insane hours without overtime.


.lm.
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DrXparaMental
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Re: RACISM...

Post by DrXparaMental » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:00 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:
DrXparaMental wrote:
They freeload when they plop down in an ER somewhere and get patched up and disappear. Happens EVERYDAY.

Plenty of legal citizens are doing that every day. It's part of whats so fucked up about health care in this country, anybody who doesn't have proper health insurance is doing that. Shit, if i had to go to the ER today, I'd be doing it. I'd wager that there are as many legal citizens doing this as illegals, if not more.



ultimately i think the whole argument against these immigrants based on "i'm paying for them" is horseshit. You might want to actually look into how your tax dollars are being spent and where you're really getting fucked over. It's not illegal immigrants, it's not welfare, it's not any of the social programs that conservacunts like to cry about. It's the military and salvaging corporate interests that should really have you outraged.



.lm.
Man, are you ever off on this one. The cost of illegal immigration is INSANE. This has NOTHING to do with partisanship so PLEASE don't start that infantile conservative/liberal horse shit.

"salvaging corporate interests"...oh you mean like what the prince is doing with GM & Chrysler right now? Or the fact that 2 out of 10 banks they "bailed out" didn't want the money in the first place but had to take on a government interest.

When will people EVER learn that there is ZERO party division. They just love pulling that bullshit wool over everyone's ADD eyes.

DrXparaMental
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Re: RACISM...

Post by DrXparaMental » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:03 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:i agree. But it's not so easy as showing up and saying, "hey, make me a citizen, i want to pay taxes" If it were, we wouldn't have a problem.

besides, aren't the real criminals the businesses that are hiring these illegals under the table? They do it because they don't have to pay a fair wage, don't have to buy health insurance, and because they will work at undesirable jobs for insane hours without overtime.


.lm.
If this were the case LM, the United Snakes would be larger than China. Yesterday. Nothing free is worth squat. Freedom ain't free.

stringtapper
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Re: RACISM...

Post by stringtapper » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:20 pm

DrXparaMental wrote:This has NOTHING to do with partisanship so PLEASE don't start that infantile conservative/liberal horse shit.

When will people EVER learn that there is ZERO party division. They just love pulling that bullshit wool over everyone's ADD eyes.
Good luck getting this across around here. I've tried. Political discussions around here seriously remind me of being in a Baptist church in Texas, exactly the same mindless ideological circle jerking, except for the other side.
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aisling
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Re: RACISM...

Post by aisling » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:23 pm

3dot... wrote:how could you ever get used to ????!!!!!
people wanting you DEAD because of your race...
you've got to be kidding...
And your religion.......I am a jew, have had many unfortunate encounters, until I went bald and shaved my head......and the fact that I have been a weight lifter since my 20's....Now people think I am the skinhead :?
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3dot...
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Re: RACISM...

Post by 3dot... » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:26 pm

H20nly wrote:I grew up in South Texas right by the Mexican border. I got picked on all through school for being white. I had to fight and I had to keep my mouth shut or risk fighting more... I was the minority.

My mother and (biological) father are from the U.K. When my mother left my step dad and I was about 11 or 12 years old. We moved to the U.K. where in that enviroment I was picked on for being a Yank. No where near as bad, but singled out none-the-less.

In 1996 I got arrested in Mobile Alabama when I was passing through with 12 pounds of weed. I got thrown in jail then prison for 3 years that were predominately filled with blacks. I understand what it is like to be descriminated against because of my skin color for above mentioned reasons. So, when the Arian Brotherhood wanted me to join their cause, I rode alone. This of course caused the whites to alienate me too. As a group it was actually the Muslims in prison who were the most noble and understanding of all who I came across.

Racism is a double edged sword and there are a lot of things that Americans of all colors forget. One of the things that bothers me most about a lot of Hip-Hop music that you see on TV is that the same fucker who is talking down about whites and talking up "his" people is wearing a big Diamond ear ring. Where did that diamond come from? What mine and under what conditions? Also, not all slaves were "stolen" from their homes by whites which is the common accusation. Many of them were purchased from blacks who sold them because they had captured them as the spoils of war.

My forefathers are long gone. Who were they. I don't know. Could I be different? - Indeed.

Racism is a crutch that has become a kickstand.
I applaud you man... 'Racism is a double edged sword' ...is probably the most important thing you said...
we can become racist when it's convenient for us socially...
and I like the fact that you're still an optimistic person...even though you've passed some rough shit...
it shows great strength...
Last edited by 3dot... on Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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3dot...
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Re: RACISM...

Post by 3dot... » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:37 pm

DrXparaMental wrote:
Qualify reality with reason. Just stating that is like stating, "it's raining outside where I am at". Kind of meaningless.

Illegal immigrants freeload by working under the table man. What the heck are you talking about?

They freeload when they plop down in an ER somewhere and get patched up and disappear. Happens EVERYDAY.
you're concentrating on individual cases... most of the people who come in would like nothing better than to pay your stankin' taxes...
do you really think that being illegal is a BENFEIT ?! no social status... no rights...employer can screw you over at any moment...
people rooting themselves out of their homeland to come to yours sounds like fun ...right?
I have nothing but respect for illegal workers...most of them hard working...
I have nothing but respect for people in general who work hard in order to support themselves/others...
this is not an easy world to live in and NOTHING IS FREE...
come to think of it... in every country...everybody is blaming 'illegals' for their problems...
I guess it is a kind of racism...
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3dot...
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Re: RACISM...

Post by 3dot... » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:46 pm

DrXparaMental wrote:
Never truer words spoken. I HATE (take note 3dot...) the US government's completely nonobjective stance on the black market. (that includes Illegals boys and girls in case you didn't know or understand) It's completely corrupt and self serving. If they were in the least interested, they could eliminate it within 30 days. The just keep playing games and who pays? I do!! The hard working, honest American citizen. If you don't live here, you WON'T get it because of the brainwashing your own media has accomplished.

"but that couldn't happen to me Captain Kangaroo"
WAKE UP !!!! it's the way the world goes 'round......it's like that EVERYWHERE ...
governments enforce what's most convenient in a certain time... in a very populist way...
guess they have more pressing issues...

and yes ...the working class gets shafted every time... BOO fuckn HOO...don't like it become a gangster..join a mob...
(this is why socialism is ZI BEST...)

so much f@#$ negativity...
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