OT; Friendship and boundaries

[bodhi71]

It all started by putting up 2 outside lights.
Then they asked for a new light pole.
Then to install a new mailbox.
Then a new storm door.
Then a GFCI recp. in the bathroom.
Then to check out why power was fluctuating in their house ( lights going dim)
Then a new light in the dinning room.
Then receptacles and light switches in the hall and living room.
Now they want to have more done. A lot more.
At a friend price it would have cost them about 900$, I did it for free.
900.00 would have been a generous bill.
I even paid for some of the material, and they didn't offer to reimburse me.
They did give us their old bicycles, and an old car stereo, but I really didn't want it.
And it wouldn't seem so bad but my friend's wife seriously takes it for granted. Can you say BEOOOTCH.
The more I thought about it, the worse it became in my mind. So instead of blowing up and ruining our friendship, I sent a e mail
stating the fact that I don't have enough time, and that I know other electricians who can do the work on the side for 30-40$/hour, which is still better than having a electrical company do the work.
I think sometimes people cannot understand the value of the work until it has a price tag attached.

Haven't heard back from them yet, but I imagine it might cause some uncomfortable moments.
Just needed to vent.

[longjohns]

as an outside observer, I would not call this a friend. seriously, there are billions of people on this planet. plenty of prospects for "friends" that don't rape you

[H20nly]

You did the right thing.
Sometimes people mistake kindness for weakness
Sometimes they don't even know they're doing it.


On another note: be careful what you post here. Apparently venting makes you some kind of Troll or something.

[mikemc]

ah, wives and friends, and friends' wives and wives' friends. They are very often mutually exclusive

[Machinesworking]

Haven't heard back from them yet, but I imagine it might cause some uncomfortable moments.
Just needed to vent.

Wow? You actually beat what I'm going through. When you work for friends they tend to think it's OK to complain about how much you cost, even if you're half priced. I've had friends question my hours and other fun stuff.
Rule #1 should be to make everything crystal clear up front, and that means even with favors. I'm working for a friend now, and it's all really kosher, hopefully it stays that way.

[Trip Downtown]

I used to get this so much for fixing/building peoples computers. It's kinda sad but mostly all I do now is refer people onto someone else (that is good value for money etc but still). Good on you for drawing the line. Awkwardness or not, it had to be done by the sounds of it.

[sherman]

Im in I.T. so I 'm inclined to say I have it the worst. I'm a software engineer, I write programs for a living, I went to university and studied computer programming...
As soon as someone hears my job has anything to do with computers, I get 'Oh, I've got this virus...', 'In excel/word (or worse, some abstract program I've never heard of), how do I...', 'I just bought this hardware (especially f%#$ing wireless gear!), could you help set it up', or just 'things are running slow, could you take a look?'.
I get a call pretty much once a week from my Dad asking something about excel. Each time, I guess my way through menus, asking him to read what he sees until we get what he wants, or give up. I haven't used excel since I was forced to at some stage in highschool, and he has a receptionist who spends all day in microsoft office, yet the one with the I.T. degree is the one to ask...
The worst thing though, because I do things sitting at a desk, it doesn't count as 'real' work. I'm dumbstruck if I get a thankyou, let alone some sort of remuneration...
/rant

[kingb]

In a similar boat here. I sit at a computer all day running a web dev business. The last thing I want to do when I get home is even look at a computer. Well, at least 3 times a week the wife says "can't get/send my email". arrrrgh!!! At least you were dealing with your friend's wife - it's different when it's your own and you can't escape.

[stringtapper]

This is actually something that is important for working musicians.

When your friend asks if you can play at their wedding and it's assumed it's free, get offended. Non-musicians don't understand that even though we can perform/compose/arrange/edit and make it look easy, we can only do those things because we put in years to learn the craft. Also, doing work for super cheap can drive down the expected wages for musical services, so you're doing everybody a favor by not doing favors when it comes to the things you (and your peers) do well.

[liveISlife]

It all started by putting up 2 outside lights.
Then they asked for a new light pole.
Then to install a new mailbox.
Then a new storm door.
Then a GFCI recp. in the bathroom.
Then to check out why power was fluctuating in their house ( lights going dim)
Then a new light in the dinning room.
Then receptacles and light switches in the hall and living room.
Now they want to have more done. A lot more.
At a friend price it would have cost them about 900$, I did it for free.
900.00 would have been a generous bill.
I even paid for some of the material, and they didn't offer to reimburse me.
They did give us their old bicycles, and an old car stereo, but I really didn't want it.
And it wouldn't seem so bad but my friend's wife seriously takes it for granted. Can you say BEOOOTCH.
The more I thought about it, the worse it became in my mind. So instead of blowing up and ruining our friendship, I sent a e mail
stating the fact that I don't have enough time, and that I know other electricians who can do the work on the side for 30-40$/hour, which is still better than having a electrical company do the work.
I think sometimes people cannot understand the value of the work until it has a price tag attached.

Haven't heard back from them yet, but I imagine it might cause some uncomfortable moments.
Just needed to vent.

I think you did the right thing by giving them a quick reality check that you actually have to pay people to do all the shit your doing for free. Well played. I think they definitely got the message by your email. By no means was the email offensive or harsh. You where just telling them wuts up so to speak. This is perfect example of that give them an inch they take mile saying. HOW RUDE! O, by the way... can you come install this outside light I just got 3 stories up? thx

[x0x]

I'm in I.T., and people do NOT hesitate to call me for anything computer related. They just expect me to fix it, and fix it for free. It can be day, night, weekends, holidays; it doesn't matter to them ... and god-forbid I don't immediately call them back because it is such an inconvenience when their computer doesn't work.

I now charge everyone, and if they don't want to pay $50 an hour I simply refuse to help. They can call Geek Squad and pay them $150/hr.


You did the right thing. Now, start charging them ... and invest your new wealth into gear.

[bodhi71]

I did receive a e mail from my friend thanking me for my help, said he understood my position. He then went on to say they knew of another electrician , but they weren't sure of his pricing or his availability. My problem wasn't so much him as it was her. Every time he and I would talk on the phone or web chat she would ask when I could do this or that... It got to be really old.
I regret helping them at all now. And it's not like they are destitute, they both make good money, professional jobs.
If I were to ask someone for help with a computer issue, or ask someone to translate a book, I wouldn't think twice before asking how much I owed them.
Maybe he's not as good a friend as I believed him to be.
What sucks is he and I jam together pretty often, hell I gave him my brand new acoustic effects processor, a gesture of goodwill, that and dry acoustic thru a DI sounds sickening to my ears.
I tried to get him to buy a copy of Ableton so we could work on songs whenever the moment struck and we could share files, ect. I even had coupons so it wouldn't cost as much.
He said he was more into saving money, that i should buy it for him. Hell I gave him a copy of Cubase, no great loss there, but that was 150.00 dollars, I told him if he doesn't plan on using it to give it back, so wait and see. Anyone interested in a copy of Cubase LE?

Oh well, at least they got the hint.
It seems to me, that to be generous and kind, people do see as a weakness, someone who can be exploited.
I should send them a bill.
I might just do that. I do want a APC40.

[Spikee]

I should send them a bill.
I might just do that. I do want a APC40.

A little too late for that imo. You're not a victim -- they asked and you said yes.

I used to be staunchly against bothering anyone for anything unless it was life or death, call me bull-headed and prideful. Then I lost my license after an irresponsible night out on the town, and was pretty much forced into dilemmas such as asking for rides to the grocery, the alternative being paying $20 for delivery. Obviously a plate of home-cooked spaghetti doesn't cost $20 so it was either find the humility to ask for rides or go broke really quick. The way I reconciled it in my head was that if I have the right to ask, the person I'm asking has the right to say no. And I've been told no, and being the considerate person I am I never put up a fight, explained that I understood and thanked them anyway.

I believe that in many cases the person that has their kindness mistaken for weakness is the person that, as you alluded to, has trouble setting boundaries. It would probably be wise to practice saying no -- it lessens the amount of burden you shoulder for people when you really don't have the time/resources for it, and it sorts out real fast who cares about you as a person, and not just what you have to offer.

Oh, that'll be $25 for my consultation. j/k

[aisling]

Friends, favors and business just don't seem to mix.
I have lost more "good" friends due to these arrangements....
It breaks my heart, as my inherent nature is to want to help those around me, and to give 110%.
When I call the situation, I end up being the bad guy. Fortunately, life gives us many opportunities to learn these "lessons," and break free from the victim karma.
It still is disappointing that "friends" dont have an all encompassed consciousness regarding relationships. But then maybe it was always meant to be that way, some friends are for music, some for coffee, beer, sex (if you lucky that way), conversation, etc......

[H20nly]

Friends, favors and business just don't seem to mix.
I have lost more "good" friends due to these arrangements....
It breaks my heart, as my inherent nature is to want to help those around me, and to give 110%.
When I call the situation, I end up being the bad guy. Fortunately, life gives us many opportunities to learn these "lessons," and break free from the victim karma.
It still is disappointing that "friends" dont have an all encompassed consciousness regarding relationships. But then maybe it was always meant to be that way, some friends are for music, some for coffee, beer, sex (if you lucky that way), conversation, etc......

Categories... As much as I hate boxes... they are inevitable on some fronts.

"...we're here on earth to experience the consequences of the choices we make" -Eryka Badu