Ableton vs Logic engine

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
trevox
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:58 am

Re: Ableton vs Logic engine

Post by trevox » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:52 am

mikb wrote:Yes, some have attempted to limit the discussion to this but the debate as it started way back wasn't and isn't limited to audio summing nor does audio summing equate with audio playback, no matter what you say.
Maybe equate was the wrong word - correlates might be more accurate.

But anyway, given you seem to be very defensive and keep throwing statements like "no matter what you say" and "I don't care what you think" at me, I don't think I can have an adult conversation or debate with you. I have tried to be civil, but it is getting me nowhere. Therefore I will refrain from responding to you further. I'd appreciate if you would do likewise.

mikb
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:53 pm

Re: Ableton vs Logic engine

Post by mikb » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:59 am

Geek Model wrote: It comes to "Logic sound different then Live" when you start to use DAW plugins. Just this, nothing more. My opinion.
I think most people in this thread in principle agree with this, me included. But there are 2 subtly different aspects at play here. One is doing a master from the DAW being evaluated. Masters can be compared digitally and if nothing uniquely available in only one DAW is affecting sound, the masters should nullify when compared digitally. Which means no audible difference.

The other is the sound or signal produced when playing back a project (for mastering purposes or just interacting with the project). Inefficiency in one DAW could introduce errors into this process which could hypothetically affect the sound. If the (digital) audio bus of the System in use can be recorded outside of the DAW and 2 files can be produced reflecting the "playback sound", then these files can be compared with the nullifying method too. If these files indeed do nullify, then the DAWs can be considered equal as far as sound quality is concerned.

My point here is that these latter "playback masters" may or may not nullify under certain realistic circumstances. If we acknowledge the circumstances when they don't, we can avoid these for example by adding resources or route around weaknesses in the DAW we work with. Or we can go on pretending.

The weakness of this aspect of my argument is of course that a recording process outside of the DAW may affect the sound by itself and if so we wouldn't be comparing what we think.
Last edited by mikb on Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:50 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Basic gear info: Macbook Pro with macOS 10.12, Ableton Live Suite version 9 (64bit) with Ozone, Push and APC20 as controllers.

mikb
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:53 pm

Re: Ableton vs Logic engine

Post by mikb » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:06 am

trevox wrote:
mikb wrote:Yes, some have attempted to limit the discussion to this but the debate as it started way back wasn't and isn't limited to audio summing nor does audio summing equate with audio playback, no matter what you say.
Maybe equate was the wrong word - correlates might be more accurate.

But anyway, given you seem to be very defensive and keep throwing statements like "no matter what you say" and "I don't care what you think" at me, I don't think I can have an adult conversation or debate with you. I have tried to be civil, but it is getting me nowhere. Therefore I will refrain from responding to you further. I'd appreciate if you would do likewise.
I'm sorry to hear that as I respect your arguments even as I may disagree with them. I do care about what you think about the subject even as I disagree. What I don't care about is you saying things about my posts that I find to be misrepresenting what I've said. When you bring real arguments reflecting how you see the issues, I do respect these.

That you really can't see the difference is of course sad.

With "no matter what you say" I meant of course that you saying that the subject is only about audio summing doesn't make it so nor is the latter equal or correlates only to audio track playback.
The latter is one reason why I separated mastering from playback in my hypothetical example as these two aspects can yield different results even though both processes are related to the effects of the "audio engine" in a DAW.
If these differences and others are acknowledged we can be right at the same time here. I don't have a problem with that.

If audio summing is the only thing you want to discuss, then you're doing the right thing.
Basic gear info: Macbook Pro with macOS 10.12, Ableton Live Suite version 9 (64bit) with Ozone, Push and APC20 as controllers.

ansolas
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:01 pm
Location: Earth ~ Europe ~ Germany ~ Cuxheaven

Re: Ableton vs Logic engine

Post by ansolas » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:11 pm

I noticed a quite obvious difference between Studio One and Live.
For example when I play the same piano on live or studio one.
Under studio one i get less digital sounding resonances, why ever.
Hard to describe It reminds a bit of bad room nodes savvey ? (Same with logic)

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