bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
sijarvis
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bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by sijarvis » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:11 am

i've recently been alerted to the departure of some of the Ableton coders who have left the company and started off on their own....namely the guys at www.bitwig.com.

After the release of Live 8 I made a post asking someone from Ableton to say something firm about their bug fix plans, as i'm convinced they rushed its release and having read various posts in these forums, i'm still not convinced it's stable enough.

So does anyone know anything about the bitwig coders and how fundamental were they in the company and making the software work properly.

Nobody leaves a job unless they are made unhappy. This is just a guess but I take it they weren't given the appreciation (or remuneration) they felt their jobs deserved, or they wanted to implement things in a way that was disageeable to the people who run Ableton.

Either way, I am concerned for the future of Live, I love the program but won't be upgrading until I know more. If they've allowed their best coders to walk out the door, i'll be quite honest and say i'm interested in what bitwig have planned as Ableton may never stabilise Live and bitwig may have better ideas they didn't want to hand over to a company that didn't value them enough.

So if anyone here knows any facts in regards to the loss of these employees, I would greatly appreciate their sharing them with this community.

re.mark
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by re.mark » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:26 am

It may be alot simpler and innocent than what you have hypothesised. Perhaps they merely left the company as they wanted to commit to the project on a full-time scale following the receipt of grants and substantial cash injections to develop the project.

pepezabala
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by pepezabala » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:48 am

sijarvis wrote:Either way, I am concerned for the future of Live, I love the program but won't be upgrading until I know more.
In your place I would rather demo live8 and then decide if it's worth upgrading. It's actually the software, not the programmers that you use to make music.

I also would like to know what they are cooking at bitwig. But I would rather doubt that they develop something like "a more stable version of live8". If 8.04 is not working for your needs, then you need to wait until ableton releases an update that works for you.

sijarvis
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by sijarvis » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:37 pm

pepezabala wrote: It's actually the software, not the programmers that you use to make music.


It's not quite so clear cut as that.

It's me that makes the music using the software, however, it isn't me that codes the software to make the music, it's the programmers, hence they are the most important part of the software's development.
pepezabala wrote:I also would like to know what they are cooking at bitwig. But I would rather doubt that they develop something like "a more stable version of live8". If 8.04 is not working for your needs, then you need to wait until ableton releases an update that works for you.
I too doubt they would come up with an alternative to Ableton quite so soon, however, I wouldn't doubt they could given a reasonable amount of development time.

I don't know if 8.04 will work for me. I know I can download it for a 14 day free trial but am reluctant to do this as if it doesn't work, then i've got a load of tunes and I won't be able to play them as I would then have to revert back to 7.

I've read a fair few posts recently that show it's still too buggy for Vista users. I'm a Vista user, so i'd rather not have buggy software, my trial would really be akin to being a beta tester.....something that should be done before an official release.

I notice "bugs and fixes" has been changed to "support corner". No offence team Ableton but that gives me less confidence as I now feel you're not big enough to admit your software is still too buggy.

8O
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by 8O » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:42 pm

sijarvis wrote:Nobody leaves a job unless they are made unhappy.
:roll: This is simply untrue.
Image

re.mark
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by re.mark » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:45 pm

sijarvis wrote:I'm a Vista user, so i'd rather not have buggy software
Thats something of an ironic statement isnt it.
sijarvis wrote:then i've got a load of tunes and I won't be able to play them as I would then have to revert back to 7.
Not if you tread with caution, and as advised at the beta stage, make duplicates/test versions of your tracks to see if there really is a problem. I however feel your over exagerating the problem of bugs etc within the release, and seem to be glorifying the tales of woe on the forums preventing you from progressing in any sort of logical sense. It seems the forum posts seem to have begun fear mongering people into becoming an Ableton non-believer, almost to the point wher you'd thing Live8 was a virus.
Last edited by re.mark on Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Grappadura
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by Grappadura » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:47 pm

Surely live 8 would be running smoother with them on board though! Traitors! 8O :lol:

sijarvis
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by sijarvis » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:52 pm

re.mark wrote:
I'm a Vista user, so i'd rather not have buggy software
Thats something of an ironic statement isnt it.
Well not really.

I've been on Vista for quite a while now and it rarely crashes. It's not infallible by any means but it's a huge improvement on XP. I was on XP for 5 yrs before I got Vista and there's no way I would go back.

I will be trying out windows 7 when I get round to it but at the moment i'm not going to fix something that works much better than it did under XP.

I know Vista isn't the fashionable OS but it really is that much better in practice than people would have you believe. Crashes on Live 7 are incredibly rare, I fear it wouldn't be the case with the present Live 8.

Anyway, this thread is about how important bitwigs programmers were.

re.mark
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by re.mark » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:59 pm

Out of interest, just before we return on topic, What would you say to someone whos XP and refuses to upgrade to Vista because of the hype theyve heard (read) about it being buggy, a lesser OS than XP, etc.?

sijarvis
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by sijarvis » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:06 pm

re.mark wrote:Out of interest, just before we return on topic, What would you say to someone whos XP and refuses to upgrade to Vista because of the hype theyve heard (read) about it being buggy, a lesser OS than XP, etc.?

Well obviously the proof is in how it works for you. I too was sceptical regarding Vista but it's brilliant as long as you can get the appropriate drivers for your hardware. I've had to discard a few items of software since they're no good on Vista.

Anyone want to buy a copy of Waldorf Attack, Steinberg's D'cota or Antares Filter? Also, i'll be selling NI Vokator once/if I upgrade to Live 8.

But let's not get too off topic. What effect did the bitwig coders have on leaving Ableton? It seems things aren't going particularly smoothly at present.

necho
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by necho » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:07 pm

8O wrote:
sijarvis wrote:Nobody leaves a job unless they are made unhappy.
:roll: This is simply untrue.

+1

I've left several jobs where I've been perfectly happy.





I am curious about what bitwig are developing though...
_________
sigs suck.

sijarvis
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by sijarvis » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:10 pm

necho wrote:I've left several jobs where I've been perfectly happy.
I'm curious as to why you would leave a job you were happy with.

gpvillamil
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by gpvillamil » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:13 pm

The Bitwig guys won some kind of startup contest funded by the government (not sure if federal or local), and decided to do their own thing.

My understanding is that they're still very much friends with Ableton.

And Ableton has plenty of other coders. Personally I'm impressed with how quickly they've been rolling out the bugfixes for Live 8, considering that they're also in crunch mode for the Max4Live launch.

sijarvis
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by sijarvis » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:16 pm

gpvillamil wrote:The Bitwig guys won some kind of startup contest funded by the government (not sure if federal or local), and decided to do their own thing.

My understanding is that they're still very much friends with Ableton.

And Ableton has plenty of other coders. Personally I'm impressed with how quickly they've been rolling out the bugfixes for Live 8, considering that they're also in crunch mode for the Max4Live launch.
Ok that gives me a bit more hope. I have read a fair few posts with people who claim 8.03 is more stable than 8.04 so it's not just a case of rolling out bugfixes but making sure you don't break something else with your fix.

necho
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Re: bitwig - anyone know the ins and outs

Post by necho » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:27 pm

sijarvis wrote:
necho wrote:I've left several jobs where I've been perfectly happy.
I'm curious as to why you would leave a job you were happy with.

I wanted to help my friend set up his business, since you asked.


On a different occasion, my girlfriend got a job in a different city and I followed her.
_________
sigs suck.

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