The true story of Michael Jackson...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by DrXparaMental » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:40 pm

H20nly wrote:
DrXparaMental wrote:Those who let it out, and those who keep it all in. Guess who have the nasty headaches and ulcers
and you said you're not a doctor... hmph

so I've got this nasty itch....
Oh, that, well that's just the "Ableton Itch" Make two sets and call me in the morning. :wink:

H20nly
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Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by H20nly » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:42 pm

:D

Thanks doc!!

knotkranky
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Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by knotkranky » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:41 pm

DrXparaMental wrote:
knotkranky wrote: I don't get it dude. What is it about the guy being weird that makes you so uncomfortable? .
Uncomfortable about him being "weird"? Nothing. Not a single thing. Repulsed? Take a look. He fucked up his face beyond belief when there was zero wrong with it to begin with. Do you think that was a good thing? Do you think that because he states that he is perfectly happy with it all, that others shouldn't have every right to say "hey Michael, why'd you do that to yourself you idiot?" I would think the latter expression is mighty normal provided you believed that honesty is always appropriate and ethical.
I don't think your the kind of dude that likes to make fun of the mentally ill. Sooo, lets say your right and he was mentally ill. Now what?
Nothing. Why does there "need" to be anything beyond the fact.
Real Facts: MJ was a very shrewd business man - not the trait of the mentally ill.
First off, I'd like to see that accompanied by some form of substantiated proof for myself. I believe this is nothing more than opinion. Personally, I would be willing to bet that it was Michael's personal decisions and excess, certainly not a sense shrewd business, that left him in the aristocratic gutter after his Child Molestation charges. He was broke and looking at liquidation if my memory serves me correctly. I believe that Michael was given a great deal of good advise from shrewd businessmen, but what was solely of his doing, I don't know and I really don't know how someone on this forum could either.
MJ was the single most successful entertainer in history - not a trait of the mentally ill, yada, yada.
Boy, that's about as subjective as subjective gets. "Successful entertainer" certainly not in mine and many other's estimation. You mean "made the most money"? "was the most popular" "AS DECLARED BY THE MEDIA" what?

I've chatted with MJ at length. He was a smart, charitable good soul with an amazing mental capacity. He was a history buff and read like crazy. A genius to musical detail and nuance. You would be no match for MJ in many important capacities, but then again I don't presume to know your state of mental illness either :P
More subjective BS. Other than his voice, what instruments is the genius fluent on? Could you please substantiate his genius beyond your opinion? Did Michael write music like a composer?


You're a cool dude and all but you're simply an MJ hater. It doesn't matter what I say in defense of MJ, you'll only look for disagreement and disregard the rest.

If I say; "MJ's the greatest entertainer ever" and you say "he isn't", it would be on you to say who is. Simple. At that point, we've got reference points and a decent debate going. But if you want to play semantics games and push the burden of proof to me to meet whatever criteria you can't even live up to yourself, it's just argumentative bitch-slapping. <yawn>

You're a tabloid junky, your arguments and counter points are inquirer headlines at best or based on sweeping generalities that are not meant to be refuted so you can pull out the "that's your opinion" card while holding all the "fact" cards with even less proof. Must be nice.

Anyway, even direct first hand MJ accounts by a forum member is considered subjective bs to you. You've made it very clear that you have no interest in any positive discovery on your part. Hate on dude.

DrXparaMental
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Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by DrXparaMental » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:43 pm

knotkranky wrote:
DrXparaMental wrote:
knotkranky wrote: I don't get it dude. What is it about the guy being weird that makes you so uncomfortable? .
Uncomfortable about him being "weird"? Nothing. Not a single thing. Repulsed? Take a look. He fucked up his face beyond belief when there was zero wrong with it to begin with. Do you think that was a good thing? Do you think that because he states that he is perfectly happy with it all, that others shouldn't have every right to say "hey Michael, why'd you do that to yourself you idiot?" I would think the latter expression is mighty normal provided you believed that honesty is always appropriate and ethical.
I don't think your the kind of dude that likes to make fun of the mentally ill. Sooo, lets say your right and he was mentally ill. Now what?
Nothing. Why does there "need" to be anything beyond the fact.
Real Facts: MJ was a very shrewd business man - not the trait of the mentally ill.
First off, I'd like to see that accompanied by some form of substantiated proof for myself. I believe this is nothing more than opinion. Personally, I would be willing to bet that it was Michael's personal decisions and excess, certainly not a sense shrewd business, that left him in the aristocratic gutter after his Child Molestation charges. He was broke and looking at liquidation if my memory serves me correctly. I believe that Michael was given a great deal of good advise from shrewd businessmen, but what was solely of his doing, I don't know and I really don't know how someone on this forum could either.
MJ was the single most successful entertainer in history - not a trait of the mentally ill, yada, yada.
Boy, that's about as subjective as subjective gets. "Successful entertainer" certainly not in mine and many other's estimation. You mean "made the most money"? "was the most popular" "AS DECLARED BY THE MEDIA" what?

I've chatted with MJ at length. He was a smart, charitable good soul with an amazing mental capacity. He was a history buff and read like crazy. A genius to musical detail and nuance. You would be no match for MJ in many important capacities, but then again I don't presume to know your state of mental illness either :P
More subjective BS. Other than his voice, what instruments is the genius fluent on? Could you please substantiate his genius beyond your opinion? Did Michael write music like a composer?


You're a cool dude and all but you're simply an MJ hater. It doesn't matter what I say in defense of MJ, you'll only look for disagreement and disregard the rest.

If I say; "MJ's the greatest entertainer ever" and you say "he isn't", it would be on you to say who is. Simple. At that point, we've got reference points and a decent debate going. But if you want to play semantics games and push the burden of proof to me to meet whatever criteria you can't even live up to yourself, it's just argumentative bitch-slapping. <yawn>

You're a tabloid junky, your arguments and counter points are inquirer headlines at best or based on sweeping generalities that are not meant to be refuted so you can pull out the "that's your opinion" card while holding all the "fact" cards with even less proof. Must be nice.

Anyway, even direct first hand MJ accounts by a forum member is considered subjective bs to you. You've made it very clear that you have no interest in any positive discovery on your part. Hate on dude.
KK, you are completely mistaken. My point was that what you call "facts" are not facts at all, but rather are opinions. Whether those opinions are mass or not, they are still just opinions. If these "facts" exist as you claim, then it's on YOU to prove their basis, not for me to refute that which you have not proved to begin with.

You stated that Michael Jackson was a superior musical genius. I asked you a couple of very specific questions in response to that statement, giving you a simple and concise contextual means of conveying the legitimacy of his declared genius, and you start dancing better than the man himself.

To just state, yeah, I talked with MJ personally and the dude is a genius. What is that stating? It's stating YOUR OPINION.

What is incorrect about what I am inferring here?

Express the specific criteria for which you are claiming that MJ was the most successful entertainer of all time.

I can certainly name you 100 entertainers that will be remembered for their excellence in performance, presentation and their contribution to art, that they themselves and no one else are responsible for, LONG after Michael Jackson is forgot like a 2 century old pop fart in a windstorm.

To state that MJ was all "this and that" is no less opinion than for me to state the man was a dork and a fruit cake. I am certain you understand what I am making clear here.

Shit, the tabloids were the strongest thing MJ had going for him in the end. He lived for that stuff and you know it.

The most ridiculous part of all with respect to the recent Jackson follies is how the media slime can so easily influence mass opinion.

In the voice of a MUCH greater talent and entertainer IMO

"That's right folks, don't touch that dial"

knotkranky
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Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by knotkranky » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:01 pm

I'm refering to your first post mr facts dude. Post it again then.

Right, one at a time. Name an entertainer more worthy than MJ for "the best ever" label.


...

stringtapper
Posts: 6272
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:21 pm

Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by stringtapper » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:14 pm

knotkranky wrote:I'm refering to your first post mr facts dude. Post it again then.

Right, one at a time. Name an entertainer more worthy than MJ for "the best ever" label.


...
Al Jolson?
Unsound Designer

H20nly
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Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by H20nly » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:21 pm

Deadmau5?

mersault
Posts: 78
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Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by mersault » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:43 pm

MJ was a tragic figure. He wasn't allowed a childhood. That wasn't his own choice. I once read an interview with him from the Jackson 5 days (I'm almost certain that he was 12 at the time of the interview) and he said (paraphrasing), "I'm having a lot of fun doing this, but I'm also looking forward to when this is all over and I can go back to being a kid". He was fully aware of what was happening though he didn't know it would never end.

From the time he was NINE, he couldn't go out in public - EVER AGAIN!!! Please think about how isolating that must be before you call him a freak. How many years before you would crack? That would probably drive anyone to some unconventional behavior. The entire planet knows your name, but you can't really connect to anybody. As much as I've truly admired the man my whole life, I would never want to trade places with that. That would be such a sad and lonely life. He was never at peace with himself. He never got the chance to evolve into himself like the rest of us. No "child star" even comes close to MJ's situation.

I'm very glad to see how many people on here aren't hating on him. He's such an easy target. Its the "cool" position to hate on him. I have facebook "friends" who hate on him. I guess it shows how "cool" and "indy" they really are. I know MJ transcends genres and its nice to see that on this board as well.

knotkranky
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Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by knotkranky » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:03 am

stringtapper wrote:
knotkranky wrote:I'm refering to your first post mr facts dude. Post it again then.

Right, one at a time. Name an entertainer more worthy than MJ for "the best ever" label.


...
Al Jolson?
The twisted irony is breathtaking.

Image

DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by DrXparaMental » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:34 am

knotkranky wrote:I'm refering to your first post mr facts dude. Post it again then.

Right, one at a time. Name an entertainer more worthy than MJ for "the best ever" label.


...

??? my man, you have officially entered the land of lost. No clue where you are coming from.


"the best ever" Man, that's just plain silly. That's like trying to discuss "the best ever ice cream flavor" I could name 100 flavors you have never heard of and would be right on each and every account. I can tell bro you are not really into this thing. I'll call this one the MJ pop culture fashion statement.

DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by DrXparaMental » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:44 am

mersault wrote:MJ was a tragic figure. He wasn't allowed a childhood. That wasn't his own choice. I once read an interview with him from the Jackson 5 days (I'm almost certain that he was 12 at the time of the interview) and he said (paraphrasing), "I'm having a lot of fun doing this, but I'm also looking forward to when this is all over and I can go back to being a kid". He was fully aware of what was happening though he didn't know it would never end.

From the time he was NINE, he couldn't go out in public - EVER AGAIN!!! Please think about how isolating that must be before you call him a freak. How many years before you would crack? That would probably drive anyone to some unconventional behavior. The entire planet knows your name, but you can't really connect to anybody. As much as I've truly admired the man my whole life, I would never want to trade places with that. That would be such a sad and lonely life. He was never at peace with himself. He never got the chance to evolve into himself like the rest of us. No "child star" even comes close to MJ's situation.

I'm very glad to see how many people on here aren't hating on him. He's such an easy target. Its the "cool" position to hate on him. I have facebook "friends" who hate on him. I guess it shows how "cool" and "indy" they really are. I know MJ transcends genres and its nice to see that on this board as well.
Man, do you have any mirrors in your dwelling? If I were you I would break everyone immediately. You are seeing everything BACKWARD.

Are you honestly stating that you believe that it's fashionably correct to "hate on MJ"? That is thee sole most ass backward thing I have read in a LONG time.

Then you go on about how the dude IS some kind of freak because of a childhood he never had and how that excuses him from being a freak.

So now, I guess instead of expecting a greater sense of responsibility and purpose because of one's fame and popularity, we should "love on MJ" for being a radiated plastic surgery experiment gone terribly wrong?

stringtapper
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:21 pm

Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by stringtapper » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:54 am

knotkranky wrote:
stringtapper wrote:
knotkranky wrote:I'm refering to your first post mr facts dude. Post it again then.

Right, one at a time. Name an entertainer more worthy than MJ for "the best ever" label.


...
Al Jolson?
The twisted irony is breathtaking.

Image
And considering the fact that Al Jolson was not unique as far as the practice of wearing blackface in vaudeville is concerned shows how Michael really was an ironic inversion of the American entertainment industry as a whole.
Unsound Designer

knotkranky
Posts: 4336
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Location: la

Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by knotkranky » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:56 am

DrXparaMental wrote:
knotkranky wrote:I'm refering to your first post mr facts dude. Post it again then.

Right, one at a time. Name an entertainer more worthy than MJ for "the best ever" label.


...

??? my man, you have officially entered the land of lost. No clue where you are coming from.
Lets leave it at that then. I'm just trying to find some agreement but we don't have any. No worries, cheers.

@stringtapper - well put. The ironies are on so many levels.

DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
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Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by DrXparaMental » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:30 am

stringtapper wrote: And considering the fact that Al Jolson was not unique as far as the practice of wearing blackface in vaudeville is concerned shows how Michael really was an ironic inversion of the American entertainment industry as a whole.
I don't get this. I really mean this sincerely. Could you explain what you mean here? I realize that according to Michael, he was afflicted with with some type of natural condition that resulted in involuntary pigmentation loss. Or was he? I see his sister has gotten a lot lighter too so I figured it must be genetic.

H20nly
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Re: The true story of Michael Jackson...

Post by H20nly » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:40 am

C'mon doc... You just dyin to argue on this thread?

A white man famous for black face.

A black man infamous for a white face...

His sister needs to leave the fuckin house and get some sunshine.




Oh and he was lying. The only thing wrong with his skin was that he hated it...
OR our theories from earlier in the thread about his being an alien are true.
/roll X-files jingle.

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