Default warp method - best choice?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
infiniteB
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Default warp method - best choice?

Post by infiniteB » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:32 pm

The default warp method, I believe, is "beats"... Any suggestions as to otherwise? I know each case depends upon one's own needs and own ears, but my question just might be : "Any opinions on Elastique Pro as the default warp method"? Pros? Cons?
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Rinsemeister
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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by Rinsemeister » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:51 pm

Damn fine query...........

Pros: keeping sounds "natural" when stretched.

Cons: Mucho CPU drain.

Beats is good for just that....Beats!

Depends on the type of music you're doing. I'm into Electronica (yawn) so
I don't really care too much about faithfull transposition etc.

All I can say is experiment and see what does it for you. :wink:

Z.

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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by hurlingdervish » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:10 pm

it really depends on the sample so i would go with complex default and change it accordingly

infiniteB
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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by infiniteB » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:54 pm

hurlingdervish wrote:it really depends on the sample so i would go with complex default and change it accordingly
Why "complex" as opposed to "complex pro" as default? Any reason (I know it is just a starting point, but is there any reason not complex pro?)?
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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by hurlingdervish » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:56 pm

infiniteB wrote:
hurlingdervish wrote:it really depends on the sample so i would go with complex default and change it accordingly
Why "complex" as opposed to "complex pro" as default? Any reason (I know it is just a starting point, but is there any reason not complex pro?)?
because im OBSOLEET with live 7

i wouldnt have the default be something that would take up more cpu though, that could lead to unexpected crashes when you are pushing the cpu to the higher realms

infiniteB
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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by infiniteB » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:05 am

Werd. Gotcha. Thanks...
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mr.ergonomics
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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by mr.ergonomics » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:38 am

I have repitch as default, because you don't process the audio with it. when I need to stretch I evaluate all methods.

hint: complex does alter the audio even if you don't change the tempo. only use it when you need it.

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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by infiniteB » Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:39 am

mr.ergonomics wrote:
hint: complex does alter the audio even if you don't change the tempo. only use it when you need it.
Ahh, the exact answer I was sort of lookin' for. Thanks...
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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by bosonHavoc » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:17 pm

mr.ergonomics wrote:I have repitch as default, because you don't process the audio with it. when I need to stretch I evaluate all methods.

hint: complex does alter the audio even if you don't change the tempo. only use it when you need it.
sweetness
that is great info

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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by Warminstrel » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:42 pm

I use complex pro to remove the 'fartyness' of my guitar solos caused when I have to move warp markers so it sounds like I can actualy play in time... :oops:

default = beats (...as that was the original question)

Hermanus
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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by Hermanus » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:02 pm

Complex pro is great but can be cpu hungry, if you start pushing warp markers in there.

I would say +1 to the repitch choice as default :wink:

mr.ergonomics
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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by mr.ergonomics » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:17 pm

Update: it's not complete true what I said, I checked it again.

whats true?
- when you do a invert phase test with two identical audio files you don't get 100% silence, so my assumption was that complex alters the audio.

But...
-complex mode self doesn't alter the audio when you don't change the tempo, it's the implementation or a bug in ableton.

let me explain...

test setup:

- duplicate a audio track in session view
- only one warp marker for the start
- track tempo and master tempo are the same
- first one is in repitch mode, the second one is in complex mode
- invert the phase from one audio track
- when there is no difference you get 100% silence

- you don't get silence, there is a difference, but when you add some samples delay they neutralise perfect.

conclusion

it seems that it's not the complex algorithm self, it's the implementation in live.

I noticed some weird related things a long time ago.
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103857

longjohns
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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by longjohns » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:06 am

complex and pro ALWAYS CHANGE THE SOUND

never use them as default.

this would mean that if you recorded a sound, and performed a consolidation.. you would have captured warping distortions into your new clip permanently.

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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by pepezabala » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:29 am

for some reason I never use "texture". I wonder if there is any type of sample that sounds best with "texture" ?

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Re: Default warp method - best choice?

Post by leedsquietman » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:07 am

repitch - most stuff I do doesn't involve timestretching and in that case, the audio is left unaltered.

complex - no, took much CPU overhead and does leave artifacts even if you don't alter pitch - Ableton say this themselves in the Live 7 audio document. If you should need another warp mode, it's easy to set them up on individual tracks.
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