Lives sound engine argument again ...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
SubFunk
Posts: 7853
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:41 pm
Location: A Big Toilet Called Berlin
Contact:

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by SubFunk » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:42 am

Ok, some things are obvious! I cant say that live's reverb is better that logic's lol... but you know what i mean!
Live's reverb is first class if you need the sound of a fart in a coke can... i agree!

:lol:

no, i hear you! yeah some of the Live plugs are very cool, they are all usable... and we can argue and discuss them to death...
*** Image GAFM ***

Hermanus
Posts: 1648
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:47 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by Hermanus » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:35 pm

Yesterday, Someone told me something that says all
Whatever hardware or software you use, XLR cables, spdif or cinch_ As long as your music has some heart and sounds great, The task is almost complete!
Am I the only Live user marvelously astonished by the sound engine?
Seriously, I understand the worries here. But if you catch the way, it's fully rewarding and so fun to work with.

Whining slows down your work.

And what? Now people pay for products they know they're not going to like?

I'm ok when someone like Subfunk is complaining about real problems with live, and wanna have a stable DAW to work with.
I'm not with the free rantings that lead nowhere

Well Iget back to work :twisted:

kb420
Posts: 2750
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:35 am
Location: Cydonia on the 4th Planet

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by kb420 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:41 pm

Image
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

leedsquietman
Posts: 6659
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:56 am
Location: greater toronto area

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by leedsquietman » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:57 pm

Live has improved many things plugin wise since Live 6. (where EQ8 was a major improvement)

Live 7 - Dithering added (pow-r); compressor vastly improved. For Suite owners - the AAS licensed synths, improvements to Sampler and Operator.
Live 8 - multiband dynamics, vocoder and limiter added - previously no multiband compressor or limiter. Collison/Corpus/Latin Percussion and improvements to Operator (user customizable waveforms etc).


Where Live falls down -

REVERB - all of the competition now have decent quality convolution reverbs. Live's reverb - polarizes people - you either love it or hate it.
PITCH CORRECTION - Included in Logic, Cubase (with advanced melodyne type correction now in C5) and Sonar V-Vocal etc.
Channel Strip type plugins such as VC64 in Sonar. Modelled vintage type plugins - Live 7's compressor has various modes to make a more vintage sound, but doesn't specifically have a 'vintage' range of EQs or compressors.

But a lot of this goes back to people's misconceptions that Live is just an audio tweakbox or something that needs to be rewired to a 'proper DAW' because of it's unique design (and the first 3-4 versions of Live had such rudimentary feature sets in terms of advanced audio editing and MIDI), people don't give it the recognition it deserves.

The other factor is the price. It could be argued that Logic and Cubase give you almost as much as the Live Suite, yet cost significantly less. This is a recent phenomenon brought about by Apple aggressively price cutting Logic Studio 8, but Ableton did not follow as they consider their product to have hard core customers and in a niche. Also, Cubase and Logic come with around 60 audio FX plugins, as opposed to 30 ish in Live 8.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

jlgrimes
Posts: 1502
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by jlgrimes » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:16 pm

leedsquietman wrote:Live has improved many things plugin wise since Live 6. (where EQ8 was a major improvement)

Live 7 - Dithering added (pow-r); compressor vastly improved. For Suite owners - the AAS licensed synths, improvements to Sampler and Operator.
Live 8 - multiband dynamics, vocoder and limiter added - previously no multiband compressor or limiter. Collison/Corpus/Latin Percussion and improvements to Operator (user customizable waveforms etc).


Where Live falls down -

REVERB - all of the competition now have decent quality convolution reverbs. Live's reverb - polarizes people - you either love it or hate it.
PITCH CORRECTION - Included in Logic, Cubase (with advanced melodyne type correction now in C5) and Sonar V-Vocal etc.
Channel Strip type plugins such as VC64 in Sonar. Modelled vintage type plugins - Live 7's compressor has various modes to make a more vintage sound, but doesn't specifically have a 'vintage' range of EQs or compressors.

But a lot of this goes back to people's misconceptions that Live is just an audio tweakbox or something that needs to be rewired to a 'proper DAW' because of it's unique design (and the first 3-4 versions of Live had such rudimentary feature sets in terms of advanced audio editing and MIDI), people don't give it the recognition it deserves.

The other factor is the price. It could be argued that Logic and Cubase give you almost as much as the Live Suite, yet cost significantly less. This is a recent phenomenon brought about by Apple aggressively price cutting Logic Studio 8, but Ableton did not follow as they consider their product to have hard core customers and in a niche. Also, Cubase and Logic come with around 60 audio FX plugins, as opposed to 30 ish in Live 8.

Live's reverb is its weakest point.

There is nothing majorly wrong with the sound engine though. It has 64 bit summing and 32bit plug-in processing. Sonar has a complete 64 bit engine but that is the only program that has it completely.
I'm also not sure what Panning Law Live is using either but the Panning Law also affects the audio engine though but whatever Panning Law Live uses is more of a convention than a flaw. (they should have an option we can change though).

I think most programmers are waiting for the O.S.s to truly switch to 64 bit, which would make the probably make the 64 bit engines easier to code.

If everybody stays on 32 bit O.S. the software companys will be fairly slow to change.

mikemc
Posts: 5454
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Maryland USA
Contact:

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by mikemc » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:47 pm

ok, i'll see what i can do, facepalmer dudes...
Image

kb420
Posts: 2750
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:35 am
Location: Cydonia on the 4th Planet

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by kb420 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:10 pm

Image
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

knotkranky
Posts: 4336
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: la

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by knotkranky » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:51 pm

There's an unwritten rule when posting opinions on audio quality:

"Post your fucking music or stfu"

That way we know if your opinion is worth anything.

Men post their "quality" sound, kids go; bla bla bla.


Image

they are cute though. )


That should do it.

evon
Posts: 1084
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:44 pm
Location: Jamrock

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by evon » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:06 pm

My two cents: Every other DAW I have listened to sounds better than Live.
The difference in sound though, is tolerable/insignificant, and I tend to make a tade-off for the sound with the better workflow and flexibility that Live provides.

In addition, a good knowledge of Live's capabilities, along with the use of other DAW's for thier various specialities tends to afford me the best of both worlds.
fe real!

Johnisfaster
Posts: 7251
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:34 am
Contact:

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by Johnisfaster » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:13 pm

evon wrote:Every other DAW I have listened to sounds better than Live.
And then you looked at the numbers and realized they were exactly the same.
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

Bynar
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by Bynar » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:28 am

I strive for poor sound quality. Artifacts and glitches sound way better than $$$ plugins. It should be about the music anyway. Let them say Live sounds worse I say.
A composer is a guy who goes around forcing his will on unsuspecting air molecules, often with the assistance of unsuspecting musicians. - Frank Zappa

knotkranky
Posts: 4336
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: la

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by knotkranky » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:52 am

\m/

:D

crumhorn
Posts: 2503
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:04 pm

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by crumhorn » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:03 am

Any difference that you hear originates somewhere between your ears. The last component in the audio chain.

Listening to the opinions of 'experts' or spending more money on equipment can have a profound effect on the performance of this component.
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

silveriofunk
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:34 am
Location: London

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by silveriofunk » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:53 am

UKRuss wrote:No. Just no. Not again. For gods sake stop the thread.
+1

3osc
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:52 am

Re: Lives sound engine argument again ...

Post by 3osc » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:12 pm

All of this new-fangled digital shit sounds the same anyways. I only record onto wax discs for that nice analog warmth.

Post Reply