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Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:12 pm
by abletoff
Hi, I'd like to trigger Addictive Drums and EzDrummer through my cheap e-drums set, a medeli clone. I tried to read the output notes in midiox, but have no idea how to make Live translate those to the one needed by the two vstis, that OBVIOUSLY use different mappings.
Maybe there's a smart way but I'm not so smart anyway :D
Any guess? Thanks

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:55 am
by abletoff
Still struggling :D

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:41 pm
by trommelmeister
Hi! I neither have Live8 (only Live7) nor AddictiveDrums, but I can tell you one way of how it could work for you: What you need is a "MIDI Effect Rack", equipped with chains and one "Pitch" MIDI effect for each of the chains.

Have a look at the following image - it should give you a first idea of how it works. I used just an Impulse as the drum instrument, but you can of course use Addictive Drums etc. as well.

Image

In detail:
  1. Drag a "MIDI Effect Rack" on an empty MIDI track. You can find this effect rack in the "MIDI Effects" folder in the "Live Devices" browser.
  2. Drag your drum instrument (e.g. Addictive Drums) just right next to the MIDI effect rack. Now all the MIDI notes will first be sent through the effect rack before the drum instrument receives them.
  3. In this "MIDI Effect Rack" create as many chains as you have different MIDI notes which you can send from your e-drums set. So, for example, if you have in total 8 pads create 8 chains. In the example image above I just created 2 - was too lazy to do more ;-) To add chains, you have to show the chains area first. Normally this area is hidden. Click on the middle button on the left part of that "MIDI Effect Rack" window. To add a new chain, just rightclick in this area which reads "Drop MIDI effects here". For better overview, rename all the chains to the corresponding pad. So, you might want to use the first chain for the bass drum. In the example image I used "BD" as the name.
  4. For each of the created chains narrow the key area to just the one note which you want to receive for that chain. To see the key area, you have to show it first - click on the "Key" button at the top of the effect window (it is next to "Vel", "Chain", and "Hide"). In my example, the bass drum is sent on MIDI note C3. Drag the left and the right boundary of the area so that only C3 is seen on that chain. By narrowing the key area to just one note, all the other notes will not be passed through the effects rack.
  5. Now the cool thing can be done: Drag a "Pitch" MIDI effect on each of the chains. In the example I have 2 chains - so I also have 2 pitch effects. With that pitch effect you can now "move" the incoming MIDI note to the one you really need. For example: Your bass drum pad sends only on C2, but Addictive Drums expects it to be on C1. In that case you would configure the pitch effect to "-12". Voila!
The coolness even increases when you select "Show names in the MIDI editor" for the chains. Then your selected names (e.g. BD and SD) will directly appear in the MIDI piano roll editor instead of these dreadful C1, D#2 etc.

Conclusion: With this configuration you can now individually configure for any incoming MIDI note the resulting MIDI note which is then sent to the drum instrument. And it even shows the names in the MIDI editor :-)

Hope this helps! Regards, Martin

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:15 pm
by abletoff
Awesome man, thanks for your time and clear explanations :)
Trying this tonight :)

thanks again, now I'm an happy mediocre drummer :D

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:14 pm
by Ball Sack
Thanks

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:45 am
by Delusion
trommelmeister wrote:Hi! I neither have Live8 (only Live7) nor AddictiveDrums, but I can tell you one way of how it could work for you: What you need is a "MIDI Effect Rack", equipped with chains and one "Pitch" MIDI effect for each of the chains.

Have a look at the following image - it should give you a first idea of how it works. I used just an Impulse as the drum instrument, but you can of course use Addictive Drums etc. as well.

Image

In detail:
  1. Drag a "MIDI Effect Rack" on an empty MIDI track. You can find this effect rack in the "MIDI Effects" folder in the "Live Devices" browser.
  2. Drag your drum instrument (e.g. Addictive Drums) just right next to the MIDI effect rack. Now all the MIDI notes will first be sent through the effect rack before the drum instrument receives them.
  3. In this "MIDI Effect Rack" create as many chains as you have different MIDI notes which you can send from your e-drums set. So, for example, if you have in total 8 pads create 8 chains. In the example image above I just created 2 - was too lazy to do more ;-) To add chains, you have to show the chains area first. Normally this area is hidden. Click on the middle button on the left part of that "MIDI Effect Rack" window. To add a new chain, just rightclick in this area which reads "Drop MIDI effects here". For better overview, rename all the chains to the corresponding pad. So, you might want to use the first chain for the bass drum. In the example image I used "BD" as the name.
  4. For each of the created chains narrow the key area to just the one note which you want to receive for that chain. To see the key area, you have to show it first - click on the "Key" button at the top of the effect window (it is next to "Vel", "Chain", and "Hide"). In my example, the bass drum is sent on MIDI note C3. Drag the left and the right boundary of the area so that only C3 is seen on that chain. By narrowing the key area to just one note, all the other notes will not be passed through the effects rack.
  5. Now the cool thing can be done: Drag a "Pitch" MIDI effect on each of the chains. In the example I have 2 chains - so I also have 2 pitch effects. With that pitch effect you can now "move" the incoming MIDI note to the one you really need. For example: Your bass drum pad sends only on C2, but Addictive Drums expects it to be on C1. In that case you would configure the pitch effect to "-12". Voila!
The coolness even increases when you select "Show names in the MIDI editor" for the chains. Then your selected names (e.g. BD and SD) will directly appear in the MIDI piano roll editor instead of these dreadful C1, D#2 etc.

Conclusion: With this configuration you can now individually configure for any incoming MIDI note the resulting MIDI note which is then sent to the drum instrument. And it even shows the names in the MIDI editor :-)

Hope this helps! Regards, Martin


I cannot find an "empty midi effect rack"
I find midi effect racks folder and it has 3 sub folders
Arps
Drums
Tools

I have dragged all of them into a blank midi track and everything in there sub folders...nothing looks the same as the picture you have on this post... Which one did u choose under those sub folders?

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:41 am
by dancing Ray
@Delusion:
Just double click the "Midi Effect Rack" folder, that should give you an empty rack.
I hereafter highly recommend to read the manual. It could give you a good understanding of how to proceed further.

@trommelmeister:
thanks, good post

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:11 am
by Delusion
dancing Ray wrote:@Delusion:
Just double click the "Midi Effect Rack" folder, that should give you an empty rack.
I hereafter highly recommend to read the manual. It could give you a good understanding of how to proceed further.

@trommelmeister:
thanks, good post

If I double click the mide effect rack folder it just opens and closes?
I didnt see a part in either the drum set manual or the ableton live manual that covers this
Im reading the post by trommelmeister and trying to follow it step by step soo im at the first step and I cant get to what he has pictured in the post.

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:19 am
by dancing Ray
You have to double click the folder directly, not the small triangle next to it. Another way is to drag a single device to a midi channel and group it (hotkey: control g). That gives you a rack with a device inside.

I hereafter highly recommend to read the Live manual, especially chapter 17 "Instrument, Drum and Effect Racks", to get a basic understanding of what you are doing

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:45 pm
by Delusion
dancing Ray wrote:You have to double click the folder directly, not the small triangle next to it. Another way is to drag a single device to a midi channel and group it (hotkey: control g). That gives you a rack with a device inside.

I hereafter highly recommend to read the Live manual, especially chapter 17 "Instrument, Drum and Effect Racks", to get a basic understanding of what you are doing
Im sorry, I will read the re-manual but can you just help me on just this first step. On the left when i go through the folders and find "midi effect rack" it has sub folders underneath it. when I double click the folder...not the arrow... it just dissapears and all thats left is "parent folder" it does not put anything in a midi track. I understand that alot of people dont want to deal with noobs that are not all that familiar but im just trying to learn, could you please help me get to what is pictured in this post. I really thank you, and Im reading the manual now.

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:00 pm
by garyboozy
you're trying to load your devices from one of the 3 'File Browser' folders.
this is incorrect:

Image


always load all Live devices from the Live Device Browser, thusly:

Image

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:03 pm
by Delusion
garyboozy wrote:you're trying to load your devices from one of the 3 'File Browser' folders.
this is incorrect:

Image


always load all Live devices from the Live Device Browser, thusly:

Image

thank you sooo much, I appreciate you doing this for me...ok off to the manual, i thank you all for your patience

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:17 am
by samtastic
champion

got Battery 3 working with piano roll nicely : )

thank you so much

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:49 pm
by trommelmeister
samtastic wrote:champion

got Battery 3 working with piano roll nicely : )

thank you so much
Nice - you are very welcome! It is good that you could get it working in a way you wanted. Regards, Martin

Re: Translating E-Drum to vsti drums through Live's Scale device

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:07 am
by Ben_Binary
THANKS HEAPS GUYS !!!