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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:48 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:27 pm
Posts: 428
Location: Scrotum
Dom da dom dom


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:53 pm 

Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:00 pm
Posts: 1107
dom wrote:
silrak:

In general the next release is only aiming at 10.6 compatibility, it's not about new features.

Besides that, there will be a Live 64bit version someday, but there's no date announced yet.
This has nothing to do with the 10.6 release.

This is the most awaited feature for me.
Obviously not 64 bit recording, but more RAM please. Given how large so many of the sample sets modern Romplers use then you can be down to five instruments sometimes.

It would be fine if freeze released the RAM somehow but it doesnt seem to. . .


OpenCL an interesting topic, but not a switch you just turn on and a bit too early for statements at all.
You can't just throw a vst at it and shout "c'mon gfx card, crunch!"
It's a complete developing platform that let's you develop code in its own language that runs on CPUs as well as on GPUs.
It also seems to be the first hardware independent approach as there were already hardware dependent APIs available from ATI and NVidia - but there's not much stuff to see yet in general: OpenCL 1.0 itself was just released in december, it is now included in os10.6 and you have to develop new stuff with it or check how to port your existing things. Means a lot of time and sweat - while atm it only runs on Intelmacs with 10.6 with a few supported gfx cards and Microsoft doing their own thing with DirectX.


GCD on the other hand is a bundle of programming tools and functions in MacOS that helps you developing multicore functionality for your application more easily now, but all existing multicore DAWs already solved that the hard way - so also no news here. Maybe there are new tricks available now, eg. for optimizing threading between different applications as with GCD the OS handles a lot of the threading - but maybe it is not useable for us at all because threading in a realtime application with all the time dependencies is hardcore voodoo.
At least to me, this will be something for our engine welding coding wizards.

Just the ability for Live to us emore than 40% of the available cpu cycles no my octocore mac pro would be awesome.

Other programmes can do this but not live, I do hope so much that this is remedied sooner rather than later. . .


We will try to come up with a sticky tomorrow that answers the most common questions regarding the 10.6 release as it seems to generate a lot of interest and traffic.

Cheers,
Dom


nice one!

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:14 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Posts: 4657
dom wrote:
[
d) believe me or not, karma is a strange thing and i try to take care of mine... does not only help with Live.


Cheers,
Dom



tss.. this is by far the best excuse for live 8 stability problems...
first it was third party plugs.. now its the bad karma of the users..
Ableton stinks

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:45 pm
Posts: 3164
Location: Lost Island
dom wrote:
silrak:

In general the next release is only aiming at 10.6 compatibility, it's not about new features.

Besides that, there will be a Live 64bit version someday, but there's no date announced yet.
This has nothing to do with the 10.6 release.

OpenCL an interesting topic, but not a switch you just turn on and a bit too early for statements at all.
You can't just throw a vst at it and shout "c'mon gfx card, crunch!"
It's a complete developing platform that let's you develop code in its own language that runs on CPUs as well as on GPUs.
It also seems to be the first hardware independent approach as there were already hardware dependent APIs available from ATI and NVidia - but there's not much stuff to see yet in general: OpenCL 1.0 itself was just released in december, it is now included in os10.6 and you have to develop new stuff with it or check how to port your existing things. Means a lot of time and sweat - while atm it only runs on Intelmacs with 10.6 with a few supported gfx cards and Microsoft doing their own thing with DirectX.

GCD on the other hand is a bundle of programming tools and functions in MacOS that helps you developing multicore functionality for your application more easily now, but all existing multicore DAWs already solved that the hard way - so also no news here. Maybe there are new tricks available now, eg. for optimizing threading between different applications as with GCD the OS handles a lot of the threading - but maybe it is not useable for us at all because threading in a realtime application with all the time dependencies is hardcore voodoo.
At least to me, this will be something for our engine welding coding wizards.

We will try to come up with a sticky tomorrow that answers the most common questions regarding the 10.6 release as it seems to generate a lot of interest and traffic.

Cheers,
Dom


Hi Dom,

While I thank you for that I would like to have a word from you on this:

I still have Leopard 10.5.4 on an iMac Early 2008.
I didn't upgrade to 10.5.6 but it seems I have solved that
on my spare external boot disk created with Superduper.
Time Machine Drive needs to be on while combo upgrading
so maybe I'll do it on the internal drive as well.

However, Live 8.0.4 gfx performance are not that bad really on 10.5.4

- Do you suggest upgrade to 10.5.6 anyway (given the upcoming 8.0.5 release of Live)?
- Is Tiger still supported (I got a Macbook Late 2006 with 10.4.11)?

In general It would be nice to have a word from Ableton each time a new
update is released like the OS version it was developed on and the one you recommend.

- Thanks in advance
- Cheers
- Pasha

_________________
iMac Mac OS X 10.8.5
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:48 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:27 pm
Posts: 428
Location: Scrotum
Pasha wrote:
Hi Dom,

While I thank you for that I would like to have a word from you on this:

I still have Leopard 10.5.4 on an iMac Early 2008.
I didn't upgrade to 10.5.6 but it seems I have solved that
on my spare external boot disk created with Superduper.
Time Machine Drive needs to be on while combo upgrading
so maybe I'll do it on the internal drive as well.

However, Live 8.0.4 gfx performance are not that bad really on 10.5.4

- Do you suggest upgrade to 10.5.6 anyway (given the upcoming 8.0.5 release of Live)?
- Is Tiger still supported (I got a Macbook Late 2006 with 10.4.11)?

In general It would be nice to have a word from Ableton each time a new
update is released like the OS version it was developed on and the one you recommend.

- Thanks in advance
- Cheers
- Pasha


Hi Pasha,

Yes upgrading to 10.5.6 would be fine.

cheers,
dom


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:45 pm
Posts: 3164
Location: Lost Island
Ball Sack wrote:
Pasha wrote:
Hi Dom,

While I thank you for that I would like to have a word from you on this:

I still have Leopard 10.5.4 on an iMac Early 2008.
I didn't upgrade to 10.5.6 but it seems I have solved that
on my spare external boot disk created with Superduper.
Time Machine Drive needs to be on while combo upgrading
so maybe I'll do it on the internal drive as well.

However, Live 8.0.4 gfx performance are not that bad really on 10.5.4

- Do you suggest upgrade to 10.5.6 anyway (given the upcoming 8.0.5 release of Live)?
- Is Tiger still supported (I got a Macbook Late 2006 with 10.4.11)?

In general It would be nice to have a word from Ableton each time a new
update is released like the OS version it was developed on and the one you recommend.

- Thanks in advance
- Cheers
- Pasha


Hi Pasha,

Yes upgrading to 10.5.6 would be fine.

cheers,
dom


Thanks Dom.
... is that you? Bill Sack sounds different than Dom... while the style seems the same...

- Cheers
- Pasha

_________________
iMac Mac OS X 10.8.5
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:57 pm
Posts: 3212
Location: Another Green World
dom wrote:
my biggest hope for 10.6 is actually that the crappy finder finally got some serious attention, as they claim so.
if you ask me personally this is the biggest single drawback in osx since it exists.

cheers,
dom

+1 :!:

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:28 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:36 am
Posts: 305
Location: San Francisco, USA
Anyone have an idea if Live 7.0.x will work on Snow Leopard? I'm really just interested in knowing if that will work at all, don't necessarily to need it to work immediately.

_________________
Macbook Pro 2.16GHz, 3GB, OS X 10.6.2, Live 7.0.18 (Triceratopz), Torq 1.5.2, M-Audio Xponent, Access Virus TI Polar, Trigger Finger


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:41 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:45 pm
Posts: 3164
Location: Lost Island
donnydonny wrote:
Anyone have an idea if Live 7.0.x will work on Snow Leopard? I'm really just interested in knowing if that will work at all, don't necessarily to need it to work immediately.


In the software industry (which I belong...) we say that software X is certified with OS y and only that combination
is supported (if you have problems with an unsupported combination...it's up to you) any other combination might work and if it does it might broke anytime. While I do not see any reason why Live 7 should not work (hence not certified)with 10.6 I would write support@ableton.com for an official statement.

_________________
iMac Mac OS X 10.8.5
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:44 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:14 am
Posts: 33
Location: Rome, Italy
Hi :) Can You please give me an advice about OS ? I'm using Live 8.0.4 with a MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo 2.3 GHz (2007 model) - 2 GB RAM and the OS is still Tiger (OSX 10.4.11) ...I was just thinking about pugrading it directly to Snow Leopard but considering what i'm reading in this topic, perhaps i should wait a little ... am i wrong :wink: ? In the meanTime, which Version of Leopard do You suggest, in order to improve my performances ?
Thank You
Best Regards
M.

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:22 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:36 am
Posts: 80
Location: Serbia
donnydonny wrote:
Anyone have an idea if Live 7.0.x will work on Snow Leopard? I'm really just interested in knowing if that will work at all, don't necessarily to need it to work immediately.


I've tried it yesterday (7.0.14), and it seems to be working alright.


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:40 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:24 am
Posts: 938
Location: Ableton Headquarters
Pasha wrote:
Ball Sack wrote:
Pasha wrote:
Hi Dom,

While I thank you for that I would like to have a word from you on this:

I still have Leopard 10.5.4 on an iMac Early 2008.
I didn't upgrade to 10.5.6 but it seems I have solved that
on my spare external boot disk created with Superduper.
Time Machine Drive needs to be on while combo upgrading
so maybe I'll do it on the internal drive as well.

However, Live 8.0.4 gfx performance are not that bad really on 10.5.4

- Do you suggest upgrade to 10.5.6 anyway (given the upcoming 8.0.5 release of Live)?
- Is Tiger still supported (I got a Macbook Late 2006 with 10.4.11)?

In general It would be nice to have a word from Ableton each time a new
update is released like the OS version it was developed on and the one you recommend.

- Thanks in advance
- Cheers
- Pasha


Hi Pasha,

Yes upgrading to 10.5.6 would be fine.

cheers,
dom


Thanks Dom.
... is that you? Bill Sack sounds different than Dom... while the style seems the same...

- Cheers
- Pasha


No, not me, sorry. Would not really be my name of choice.
But BS seems stalking me a bit lately.
Wrote him a friendly PM, but i only got an immature answer.

Whatever:
As i wrote in this thread: regarding Live we recommend the latest version of 10.5 - but you may want to stay with 10.5.6 after some people seem to experience more fan activity with 10.5.8.

Cheers,
Dom

_________________
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support@ableton.com


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:53 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:45 pm
Posts: 3164
Location: Lost Island
dom wrote:
Pasha wrote:
Pasha wrote:
Hi Dom,

While I thank you for that I would like to have a word from you on this:

I still have Leopard 10.5.4 on an iMac Early 2008.
I didn't upgrade to 10.5.6 but it seems I have solved that
on my spare external boot disk created with Superduper.
Time Machine Drive needs to be on while combo upgrading
so maybe I'll do it on the internal drive as well.

However, Live 8.0.4 gfx performance are not that bad really on 10.5.4

- Do you suggest upgrade to 10.5.6 anyway (given the upcoming 8.0.5 release of Live)?
- Is Tiger still supported (I got a Macbook Late 2006 with 10.4.11)?

In general It would be nice to have a word from Ableton each time a new
update is released like the OS version it was developed on and the one you recommend.

- Thanks in advance
- Cheers
- Pasha

No, not me, sorry. Would not really be my name of choice.
But BS seems stalking me a bit lately.
Wrote him a friendly PM, but i only got an immature answer.

Whatever:
As i wrote in this thread: regarding Live we recommend the latest version of 10.5 - but you may want to stay with 10.5.6 after some people seem to experience more fan activity with 10.5.8.

Cheers,
Dom


Thank you Dom.
I'll stick with 10.5.6 then and no snow leopard for now.
However, what you'd do with my Tiger 10.4.11 macbook? Move to 10.5.6 or stay Tiger?
I got the impression your 'Avatar' was impersonating you 8O
so thank you for clarifying that it wasn't you.

- Cheers
- Pasha

_________________
iMac Mac OS X 10.8.5
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:43 pm
Posts: 790
dom wrote:
OpenCL an interesting topic, but not a switch you just turn on and a bit too early for statements at all.
You can't just throw a vst at it and shout "c'mon gfx card, crunch!" It's a complete developing platform that let's you develop code in its own language that runs on CPUs as well as on GPUs. It also seems to be the first hardware independent approach as there were already hardware dependent APIs available from ATI and NVidia - but there's not much stuff to see yet in general: OpenCL 1.0 itself was just released in december, it is now included in os10.6 and you have to develop new stuff with it or check how to port your existing things.


It will be very interesting to see if Apple have added support for OpenCL to any of their applications yet and the effect it has on performance when they do. Given that Apple are pushing OpenCL and that audio applications will possibly benefit the most from it, I'd imagine they've already added some support to Logic or will release an update pretty soon that adds support. I can also see other developers waiting to see how Logic works with it before deciding whether to add OpenCL support themselves.

I assume that the warp engine code from ZPlane is just dropped in to the Live code base without much modification, in which case it would be good to hear if they have any plans to add OpenCL support in the near future.

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Abes: any official word regarding OS X Snow Leopard?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:19 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:27 pm
Posts: 428
Location: Scrotum
Quote:
No, not me, sorry. Would not really be my name of choice.
But BS seems stalking me a bit lately.
Wrote him a friendly PM, but i only got an immature answer. Whatever:


Stalking? you should be so lucky. :D
I'm not the one sending PM's

I don't think that answer was immature. It was more to the point.

:arrow: Whatever: :lol:


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