Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
madlab
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8

Post by madlab » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:51 pm

I already congratulated Guillen for this work as I truly appreciate it. I don't understand why Ableton, which is a company i'll never praise enough for its hard creative and support work, has never properly integrated some novation controllers (in my case the X-Station) as a control surface the way propellerheads did it for reason, and now no real support for automap. I hope the arrival of the launchpad will change things.
To me the only thing missing in gullen's work is to reflect the name of the macro knobs.
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delicioso
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8

Post by delicioso » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:41 pm

marble wrote:I've only found one little flaw with the "User" mapping: The button assigned to the Master track and triggering playback on page 1 doesn't seem to trigger the "Stop Clips" button on page 2, as one would expect. I would appreciate it if that functionality was added.

A small request would be to add another page with assignments for main transport controls and punch-in/punch-out.
guille's Nocturn script and Myralfur's nanoKONTROL script together complement each other very well by filling in each other's gaps. The nanoKONTROL script has more room to easily customize too.

guille
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8

Post by guille » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:47 pm

I've only found one little flaw with the "User" mapping: The button assigned to the Master track and triggering playback on page 1 doesn't seem to trigger the "Stop Clips" button on page 2, as one would expect. I would appreciate it if that functionality was added.
I was afraid to press the wrong button during a live session. But well, I will to add the master stop clips.
A small request would be to add another page with assignments for main transport controls and punch-in/punch-out.
You've read my mind! I have implemented transport controls for the next update in a third page of user group (a good complement for Launchpad). I will publish it very soon.
guille's Nocturn script and Myralfur's nanoKONTROL script together complement each other very well by filling in each other's gaps. The nanoKONTROL script has more room to easily customize too.
You can to add more Automap pages in any MIDI channel if you want. With four channels you have a lot of free MIDI controllers and notes. And the source code is included under GPL.
I had not seen Myralfur's nanoKONTROL script, interesting. It seems that users do the job of Novation, Korg or Ableton employees. :!:
I hope the arrival of the launchpad will change things. To me the only thing missing in gullen's work is to reflect the name of the macro knobs.
Yes, I miss too. But It isn't possible to change parameter names through Automap MIDI. I tryed to use Automap SDK but it didn't work properly.

IP
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8

Post by IP » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:12 pm

what about the key version of nocturn???
Do you think this script will do the job???

madlab
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8

Post by madlab » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:17 pm

guille wrote:
I've only found one little flaw with the "User" mapping: The button assigned to the Master track and triggering playback on page 1 doesn't seem to trigger the "Stop Clips" button on page 2, as one would expect. I would appreciate it if that functionality was added.
I was afraid to press the wrong button during a live session. But well, I will to add the master stop clips.
A small request would be to add another page with assignments for main transport controls and punch-in/punch-out.
You've read my mind! I have implemented transport controls for the next update in a third page of user group (a good complement for Launchpad). I will publish it very soon.
guille's Nocturn script and Myralfur's nanoKONTROL script together complement each other very well by filling in each other's gaps. The nanoKONTROL script has more room to easily customize too.
You can to add more Automap pages in any MIDI channel if you want. With four channels you have a lot of free MIDI controllers and notes. And the source code is included under GPL.
I had not seen Myralfur's nanoKONTROL script, interesting. It seems that users do the job of Novation, Korg or Ableton employees. :!:
I hope the arrival of the launchpad will change things. To me the only thing missing in gullen's work is to reflect the name of the macro knobs.
Yes, I miss too. But It isn't possible to change parameter names through Automap MIDI. I tryed to use Automap SDK but it didn't work properly.
What a great work. Your stuff is a gift. Any way we can support your efforts ? I've made a few sysex templates for novation's x station 2 years ago, maybe that can be of any use for some here(once again, a case of users making the companies work). As it is when delivered by novation, nocturn is almost an empty shell for me. that's the reason why I haven't used it for months before deciding to dig a little more.
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delicioso
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8

Post by delicioso » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:04 pm

guille wrote:I had not seen Myralfur's nanoKONTROL script, interesting. It seems that users do the job of Novation, Korg or Ableton employees. :!:
Yeah, the nanoKONTROL script is great. It has scalable support for controlling up to 24 tracks, and a scene (midi channel 16) with buttons mapped to things like device left/right, device on/off, clip view/device view, and clever use of shift buttons to enable things like Stop All Clips, accessing more banks for native Live deivces, and the transport that is session view/arrange view-aware so that it changes functions depending on where you are, like scene control changing to cue position left/right.

guille
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8

Post by guille » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:12 pm

IP wrote:what about the key version of nocturn???
Do you think this script will do the job???
Probably, but maybe you will have to reassign the controls of Automap templates.

guille
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8 (rev. 2)

Post by guille » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:08 pm

I've uploaded the revision 2 of this software:
http://www.hispasonic.com/comunidad/dow ... p?id=84168
  • Transport controls added.
  • Now all or selected notes of a MIDI clip can be transposed.
  • Loop control improvement and bug fixed.
  • Free buttons of User section (last page) now stop all clips.
If you use Nocturn with Launchpad maybe you don't need launch buttons of User group, by contrast you can use transport buttons of the new page.

delicioso
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8 (rev. 2)

Post by delicioso » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:45 am

Working great here. The same pitch knob now working for midi as well as audio clips is amazing. Thanks, guille. You rock!

One question re:
guille wrote:[*] Free buttons of User section (last page) now stop all clips.
I have 3 pages on the new User map, but I don't see where the free buttons are? Am I missing something?

madlab
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8

Post by madlab » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:23 am

Just downloaded this new wonder but have to go to work now :cry: Thanks Guille for this hard work
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djgroovy
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8 (rev. 2)

Post by djgroovy » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:18 am

delicioso wrote:Working great here. The same pitch knob now working for midi as well as audio clips is amazing. Thanks, guille. You rock!
What?! That's great, d/ling now! 8O :twisted:
Thanks +1.

marble
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8

Post by marble » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:14 pm

Wow, that was prompt! I just noticed in FX, Inst and Mixer, the fader has the "Pitch Bend" setting which doesn't seem to do anything, I assume that's deliberate? Also, the script seems to be stuck in parameter bank 1, "PrmBnk2" and up don't react, even there are more than 8 parameters both available in the plugin and readily configured in Live.

Still an excellent upgrade, thanks again for the effort :D

Just another few minor ideas that crossed my mind:
  • In the User group, another three knobs to resize Clip view horizontally and vertically and move clip view. This would allow convenient two-handed clip editing (one hand for zooming and navigation, the other one for moving/resizing/deleting notes via mouse).
  • Another knob to Record Quantization (if possible at all)
  • Another button to Toggle Track/Clip View (Shift+Tab).
Nothing terribly important, of course and you might rightly say that along this line of thought, one could add another bulk of pages with hundreds of assignments for every single functionality in Live, effectively reducing the efficiency and usability of the mapping, rather than increasing it.

@madlab
As it is when delivered by novation, nocturn is almost an empty shell for me. that's the reason why I haven't used it for months before deciding to dig a little more.
Very true. With guille's mapping, the out of the box device/software almost seems like a breadboard kit for homebrewing. Automap "automatic mapping" part is very half-hearted, creating some of the most unusable controller layouts I've seen. With a Moog VST I use, the entire first page is empty by default and the second has button assignments only! Needless to say, there are plugin toggles/buttons assigned to controller knobs and plugin knobs assigned to controller buttons all the time, necessitating tedious extra mouse work.

@delicioso

Thanks for pointing out the nanoKONTROL script! I was looking to get an inexpensive motorfader controller (Behringer BCF 2000 seems to be the only choice, really) but I might very well look into the nanoKONTROL.

As for your question:
The button-to-track mapping of the User Group depends on track banks selected in the FX group, not the page chosen (that only changes the functionality). Example: If you have 13 tracks, the empty buttons start with button 6 in the "T9-16" bank.
Last edited by marble on Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.

djgroovy
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8

Post by djgroovy » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:24 pm

Being able to change warp modes would be nice as well.

delicioso
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8

Post by delicioso » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:58 pm

marble wrote:I just noticed in FX, Inst and Mixer, the fader has the "Pitch Bend" setting which doesn't seem to do anything, I assume that's deliberate?
For me, the previous version had the crossfader assigned to Pitch Bend that didnt' seem to do anything, but with this new version, the crossfader is assigned to Live's crossfader for all 4 maps. Did you replace the Nocturn folder inside Live as well as open the new automap files? Also, not sure if it matters, I found that I have to have Mixer on Ch1, Inst on Ch2, Fx on Ch3, and User on Ch4 and assign them in that order. The way I do it is to go to each map, Clear All Controls and then Rebuild Control Map. And then open the new automap file and Set as Default Control Map for this client.

guille
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Re: New Remote Script for Novation Nocturn and Live 8

Post by guille » Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:49 pm

I just noticed in FX, Inst and Mixer, the fader has the "Pitch Bend" setting which doesn't seem to do anything, I assume that's deliberate? Also, the script seems to be stuck in parameter bank 1, "PrmBnk2" and up don't react, even there are more than 8 parameters both available in the plugin and readily configured in Live.
Don't trust in Automap software stability and start from beginning. Sometimes I've lost suddenly a parameter map, sometimes it doesn't refresh a control. However Live side seems to work great. Reset maps and load again. The middle control is named Crossfader an is mapped to Live's crossfader on all pages. I test bank buttons and it works fine for me.

One trick: Loop controls (loop start, loop end) are mapped to global loop when no clip is selected.
Just another few minor ideas that crossed my mind:

In the User group, another three knobs to resize Clip view horizontally and vertically and move clip view. This would allow convenient two-handed clip editing (one hand for zooming and navigation, the other one for moving/resizing/deleting notes via mouse).
Another knob to Record Quantization (if possible at all)
Another button to Toggle Track/Clip View (Shift+Tab).

Nothing terribly important, of course and you might rightly say that along this line of thought, one could add another bulk of pages with hundreds of assignments for every single functionality in Live, effectively reducing the efficiency and usability of the mapping, rather than increasing it.
Well, it's not possible to do anything with python remote scripts. Ableton Live is programmed in C++ that is opaque for another software. You only can access to Python API facade that translates python calls to some C++ functions. It's possible to do more things but I don't want to overload Nocturn scripts beyond practical use. An step sequencer, for example, is a great thing but Launchpad is better to deal with this.

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