Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

How often is Live 8 crashing during heavy usage prod/stage timess

never...
11
12%
can happen but rarely... less than an mpc
18
19%
once a month
5
5%
once a week
8
9%
on a daily base
26
28%
every few hours
26
28%
 
Total votes: 94

[nis]
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by [nis] » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:38 pm

3phase wrote: And i answerd your requests and explained my setup... but you put down the support case anyway because i used critical words...
Oh I see. Like...here(?):
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=122818

3phase wrote: Ableton hiding the truth..
Pardon?? What's next? Ableton planned 9/11?

3phase wrote: Ableton is really not the company i would be proud of. you maybe are..
Sorry, but this is getting a bit too much now.


Case closed.
Nico Starke
Ableton Product Team

3phase
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by 3phase » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:00 pm

sure..close the case and keep your customers with crashing computers on stage..
The case was closed allready. But thanks that you informed us about the minor dual cpu bug that only affects 30-50% of the mac users..


What do i think ableton live?
sucks in the studio and on stage... and its really smart programmed..the search engine , the midi editor..the midi thru routine..the elastic audio creates human grooves on the fly and now its even crashing to prevent you from getting bored.
But thanks god max4live is coming...this will really turn the rogram into something...

Switching the second cpu off results in other crashes when changing settings in live.. maybe still better on stage..but shall we really try?
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

audiofeen
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by audiofeen » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:09 pm

3phase wrote:sure..close the case and keep your customers with crashing computers on stage..
The case was closed allready. But thanks that you informed us about the minor dual cpu bug that only affects 30-50% of the mac users..


What do i think ableton live?
sucks in the studio and on stage... and its really smart programmed..the search engine , the midi editor..the midi thru routine..the elastic audio creates human grooves on the fly and now its even crashing to prevent you from getting bored.
But thanks god max4live is coming...this will really turn the rogram into something...

Switching the second cpu off results in other crashes when changing settings in live.. maybe still better on stage..but shall we really try?

jesus stop your bitching will ya, if its that buggy use a diffrent os version or diffrent version of live ....or go to windows
http://www.soundcloud.com/mikewolf
Live setup: Macbook pro 3ghz 16gb ram, Live 8.x.x, max 4 live, Mpc 1000, Komplete 7, Circle, Akai apc40, Motu ultralite, Krk Vxt8's, and soon a Innerclock Systems sync gen.

3phase
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by 3phase » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:12 pm

Sorry for bitching..but 2 major drops in front of 1000 people in one month are a good motivation base for that.
Especially after month of public betatesting its unbeliveable that the dualcore mac problem wasnt known,,
very hard to belive seeing the high crashrate the poll suggests, and i experianced after switching to live 8..

thanks to the change of the warpmarker system once there you loose all new work on the try of going back...
As said in another thread Ableton should have provided a conversion tool for that purpose...

However.. there was no answer since when Ableton ws aware of the problem.. Actually they should have been aware of it before the launch of live 8... and if this was the case than we have serious offense against the customers trust and live reputation.

I really would like to get an answer to that rather hot question, instead a case closed...
However...they never could admit it..So no answer is an answer.


Regarding changing the os..that wont help..you have to change the laptop... or go to windows..
again... we had this back in Live 2 times...

I have a standard 2,1 ghz macbook.. probably the most sold of them all..not an esoteric model...
The poll indicates that other models are affected aswell.
Ableton has no idea how many users have problems? Than ableton has aproblem with theire beta testing.. a serious one!
maybe they should have some paied betatesters instead safeing money on that by leaving it to the customers to do the testing.


For myself i finaly touched logic 8 yesterday that idles on my harddisk for years now... what a mistake..
After beeing in the Live trap for too long i ve forgotten how comfortable a professional daw is during all major studio and recording tasks..Live is only good for triggering clips..but all the rest? a pre 1980´s standard in music production..
You get used to only use basic stone tools..but once back in the fully equipped workshop? wow... and seeing the price i really can recomend logic to all apple users..

The best thing..

Live as rewire slave of logic works better than running alone !!

first no crashes..except when quitting or changing the audio interface...

no elastic audio..tempo stays stable..even when using complex pro clips...when in rewire mode the complex pro clips gets a glitch instead the whole song tempo...thats the way it should be..just restart the clip..and fine... instead running out of sync with your co musicans..

Why isnt Live alone to perform this task?

And still... rewiring all channels into logics mixer is allmost like removing a curtain before the speakers..dont know how they did it... but mixing in logic has something... and the inbuild plugs are very good in relation to live...

better multband compresser.. 2 better reverbs ... deesser..bass bost..trasient designer.. pitch correction..and and and..

you need to get a waves bundle to have it better...

In short..
ableton is way overprized and what a shitty performance and behaviour regarding the consumers need for stability...

a neat rewire slave or quick stretching... and clip launchig..

But what do we do with the apc now? no control surface support under rewire :-(

keep that in mind when thinking about buying a dedicated controler...
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

[nis]
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by [nis] » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:02 pm

We managed to reproduce the bug 3 weeks ago, found the actual cause 2 weeks ago, fixed it in an internal version 1 week ago and are now preparing for the release of the next update. I hope this answers your question.

Your case is closed because you permanently fail to communicate with our support staff like an adult person. Even so, you refuse to answer any relevant questions that may help us to help you. You rather prefer to throw mud at us whenever you can. Not a good basis to work on a problem. I'm not insulting you or your music either.

To make that clear, I don't want and don't have to support people like you, so you will not hear from me again. I have better things to do than discussing your conspiracy theories. You have already managed to piss off 3 support team members. There are 3 more left. Perhaps you've got more luck with them, but I'm out. As for the statistics, ever since I am working here we have stopped support for a total of 3 users. We receive approx. 1000 emails a week. Something to think about.

Good night.
Nico Starke
Ableton Product Team

3phase
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by 3phase » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:10 pm

1st...
for a support stuff you get a bit to easily pissed off..

2nd...
3 weeks ago is about a short time after i started bitching..so you are of the conspiracy hook...but how did you managed to dont get this during the beta phase? 50% mac users with crashes? sorry..something goes wrong at ableton..


3rd...
i only refused to answer stupid german like oficers questions that had nothing to do with the item..as reality shows now..
it was a clear computer hickup from day one as reality prooves now, and keeping on asking me about my keyboards was just retardet

4th
If you only found out about the problem because of my bitching you should be rather thankfull..because such things are a major disaster for a company with a product called live

5th
why there is no informativ sticker about the issue from last week? why do i have to start a poll?

6th
i apologize for my rude words..but you are not the people to play it on stage and feel afterwards like kicking some ass..

however i manged to continue on stage with twiddeling some accidently nord modular patches..but that wasnt the ending of a gig i would have liked and my reputation suffered...( edit. only with the nerds..the ravers still liked it ;-P, but i hated it to leave out my best tracks )

such major problems shouldnt pass beta testing... no way.. i hope you agrre at least to that..

anyway.. keep on the good work..its not your mistake... but something has gone wrong
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

audiofeen
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by audiofeen » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:16 pm

@ 3phase

I understand about the drop out being a big thing It would drive me nuts too..
but the quickest way for you to solve this issue is to answer the questions that they ask...
and not brush them off just because you think it's not the issue...
every little bit of data they get helps them to understand what's going wrong.

they said the case is closed, but they have still taken the time to reply to you and make an update
with a bug fix for this issue.
i only refused to answer stupid german like oficers questions that had nothing to do with the item..as reality shows now..
it was a clear computer hickup from day one as reality prooves now, and keeping on asking me about my keyboards was just retardet
your so wrong about that, if it wasn't for company's like ableton, Steinberg, NI, ect, ect, ect
having staff asking every question they could when a problem occurred, we wouldn't have half of the tools we have today

I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just making a suggestion that you try and work with them in the future.

audiofeen
http://www.soundcloud.com/mikewolf
Live setup: Macbook pro 3ghz 16gb ram, Live 8.x.x, max 4 live, Mpc 1000, Komplete 7, Circle, Akai apc40, Motu ultralite, Krk Vxt8's, and soon a Innerclock Systems sync gen.

stringtapper
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by stringtapper » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:59 pm

3phase wrote:6th
i apologize for my rude words..but you are not the people to play it on stage and feel afterwards like kicking some ass..
Why didn't you go kick someone's ass then? That way you could have gotten it out of your system by the time you contacted Ableton's tech support and you could have dealt with them like an adult instead of a child. Try that next time.

Or you could just send someone a really long letter in your broken English, that would be somewhat like kicking their ass.
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3phase
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by 3phase » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:15 pm

ts.. its still rockn roll biz or? ok...nerds behave like adults and ask stuüpid questions to buy some time..standart routines in call enters.. i dont answer to that kind of questions..
its not my bugs and its not my way of working that has caused the problem.. relevant questions would have adressed midi drivers..audio interfaces..third party plug ins etc..instead ableton support claimed that there is nor problem and wanted to request my way of working... what appeared more than funny... and a slight refusing was imideatly answered with a quick drop of "my case" weeks ago... because i dont helped to get "my" bugs fixed...

if this kind of bugs are really my bugs the should engage me as a professional beta tester instead pissing me off...

however..the picture is pretty clear.. the employes of ableton checked the thing only on the last pro books because they run around with theese bulky things...

where are the 50% crashing macs are comimg from when its only my bug?

sorry... even when hard words piss off the one or other employer... they will help the scenario in the future..

its not everything fine... and when 1000 hobby users play in harmony games i have to use even harder words to get the proportions wright again..

this updates cost 10 euro the month..its like a rent... i am allowed to complain...
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

3phase
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by 3phase » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:44 pm

and just one thing more.. maybe regular crashing is normal for people with tons of hacked software.. but in the modern computerworld its not...
last straight ableton crashes was in 2002 when os x appeared unavoidable and in reality os 9 was very stable allready.. so changing in the computers OS can create problems no third party software company can control..
But between live 7 and 8 ther was none of this changes.. same enviroment..same os...
And major problems on most sold apple laptops..

Sorry.. looks very much like bad betatesting..
again..
We had this in the past.. the nice public betas of ableton are pretty similar to a tiesto that does remix contests on beatport..
usually you get paid to do a remix..now people pay for it!!!

sorry... than its no surprise thats positive results are rather accidental
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

audiofeen
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by audiofeen » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:26 pm

This is one of the main reasons that a lot of people don't use the latest version for there live act.
i know a lot of big names that use version 4 or 6 on stage because they have found a stable version for them ...
really if you want to use the latest version you have to expect crashes, this is why i said earlier use a different version of live or different version of your os... not matter how much they alpha or beta test there still never going to have every possible config tested that the end users have ...

Take for example os x 10.5 (leopard) this was the buggiest apple os to date and they were so slow about sorting it out...
I got burned really badly with it, I upgraded to soon and a lot of stuff was buggy with the os and 3rd party apps trying to run on it...
my external hdd got wiped with 3 years of my work on it because time machine decided to erase it ( and time machine wasn't even turned on)
so had to revert to tiger on my laptop and desktop that meant 7hrs of re-installing and configuring logic, ableton, plugins, samples...

So would you install os x 10.6 ? right now and expect everything to be perfect with all apps & all hardware 3rd party included..
I wonder how it going for the new mac users...

It'd be nice but seriously it's never going to happen..

http://discussions.apple.com/category.j ... goryID=263
Last edited by audiofeen on Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.soundcloud.com/mikewolf
Live setup: Macbook pro 3ghz 16gb ram, Live 8.x.x, max 4 live, Mpc 1000, Komplete 7, Circle, Akai apc40, Motu ultralite, Krk Vxt8's, and soon a Innerclock Systems sync gen.

rarelyseen
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by rarelyseen » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:34 pm

Dunno, I think I would go mad when it crashes on me when I play out, but these things happen with software. TB-303's lose their memory when the batteries are empty, pots crackle, Cubase on the good old Atari used to throw these stupid "internal error" crashes at me, every time I had my ultimate hit ready for recording! Shit, I even had MPCs crashing on stage. That said, I had absolutely no problems with Live 8 so far, but if I had, I'd work with them to get the issue resolved or shut up and move on. I guess they certainly haven't implemeted this bug on purpose. The little guy in me that knows a tiny bit about C++ programming whispers adoringly that it must be extremely complicated to keep such a complex software free of bugs or crashes. Talk to them, answer their questions for Christ's sake to help them finding their bugs. Ableton support has always been very helpful and competent in those rare cases I had to contact them. From what I get from Dom's and Nis' posts in this and other threads, they really seem to be pissed off about you now, but rightly so.

3phase
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by 3phase » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:49 pm

sure they are..but not more that i am about the "dom"...

and the all forgiving userbase is realy a problem with a company that tends toward arrogance allready...
ok..a toy is a toy.. we shouldnt take it too serious when a toy is crashing and its my mistake to do updates within month and not a year later...

but again... why ableton hasnt had a glue about the issue before the product has hit the market? that is really strange..
the all forgiving fan base..its just a crash.. it dont hurts at home
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

stringtapper
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by stringtapper » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:01 pm

3phase wrote:sure they are..but not more that i am about the "dom"...

and the all forgiving userbase is realy a problem with a company that tends toward arrogance allready...
ok..a toy is a toy.. we shouldnt take it too serious when a toy is crashing and its my mistake to do updates within month and not a year later...

but again... why ableton hasnt had a glue about the issue before the product has hit the market? that is really strange..
the all forgiving fan base..its just a crash.. it dont hurts at home
You are the arrogant one to automatically assume that it couldn't be something to do with your setup. Have you ever worked in tech support? Do you know how many variables can be involved in trying to troubleshoot problems with software as complex as this? They have to ask the kinds of questions they did, otherwise troubleshooting becomes chaos. I don't know whether to tell you to take your nose out of the air or pull your head out of your ass. Maybe both.

And if Live is a toy then why are you using it?
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audiofeen
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Re: Live 8 keeps crashing..normal on mac books?

Post by audiofeen » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:04 pm

if it's not working for you try something else...
my friend is selling a MSQ-700 for €150 :)

i think the really funny thing here is your mocking the tech support and user base/ forum thats only trying to help you...
http://www.soundcloud.com/mikewolf
Live setup: Macbook pro 3ghz 16gb ram, Live 8.x.x, max 4 live, Mpc 1000, Komplete 7, Circle, Akai apc40, Motu ultralite, Krk Vxt8's, and soon a Innerclock Systems sync gen.

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