Part II: A system that would replace money

[Grappadura]

Everyone is his own bank

1. A monetary system is a system that offers an incentive to work.

2. You work for money, and you spend money to let others work for you.

3. Money is debt: You work for money, because this generates a promise that someone else will work for you.

4. Money is value because of this promise.

5. In todays system only banks issue this promise. But they will never work for you, so they will never fulfill the promise. The bank, in fact, doesn´t have any means to fulfill the promise nowadays. Everyone knows that a "run to the bank" would crush the system. The bank keeps on issuing money but never repaying it in value.

So there is clearly a parasite in the system.


You can get rid of the parasite!


How it works:


1. Money has to circulate through society in order to function as an exchange tool. You only need 3 people for money to make sense. 2 people could simply exchange their services. But if A wants a service from B, B wants service from C, and C wanted a service from A, then money makes sense.

2. When B works for A, A promisses to repay him in value. We have now a dollarbill with the following statement on it: One dollar issued to B on behalf of A. Now B lets C work for him. He gives him the dollar, and now, this dollar is double secured. Now we have a one-dollar note that has an additional statement to it. B also promisses to repay C in value. C can now be repaid by B or A.

3. In the ancient systems debts were cancelled out. Once C is repaid by A, the circle is closed. The debt is gone, the money is gone. Not quite like today!

4. Even though we have a very complex commercial system, we can close the circle just like in ancient times and make our mutual debts disappear. Modern tecnology allows us to trace each step of our promise. Closing the circle is just a matter of book keeping.


How this system can get started:

1. A program is offered for free download. You enter your name and what kind of services you offer to what price. You link yourself to the people you trust. Nobody is forced to do business with anybody.

2. You make a deal by mutual agreement. One party extends the debt warrant (money). You take todays prices in the outer commercial system as a starting point. As the money circulates, the debt warrant becomes more and more liable, because the holder of the money has more and more people that can cancel the debt.

3. At some point of the circulation you reach a circle. The money got back to the person who extended it originally. The dollar note will have documented the circle. For you it means that when you let your money travel in this circle, you will get repaid.

Once you found one circle, you can make your money travel that road again and again, because you know you will get repaid in value. If this circle breaks for some reason, the bookkeeping system will find you another circle.


Thats it. How you like the manifesto?

[4.33]

[Grappadura]

I opened a new thread because I got the thoughts together, and this way every new reader will have a quick and easy overview. Hope it continues to bring up some thoughts!

[Emissary]

I opened a new thread because I got the thoughts together, and this way every new reader will have a quick and easy overview. Hope it continues to bring up some thoughts!

I take it you've watched zeitgeist / addendum and the orientation video?

[Aequitas123]

non-monetary based system FTW.

[josephjobling]

now that money exists it is almost impossable for it never to exist again. lets face it as far as a system foe credit and debt goes its pretty efficient - the above system seems complicated - how would you value work what unit woul;d you use instead of currency, man hours, pionts what work or task is worth more than another.

[Grappadura]

I opened a new thread because I got the thoughts together, and this way every new reader will have a quick and easy overview. Hope it continues to bring up some thoughts!

I take it you've watched zeitgeist / addendum and the orientation video?

Yes I have. Theres also a movie called "money as debt" on youtube.

[Grappadura]

now that money exists it is almost impossable for it never to exist again. lets face it as far as a system foe credit and debt goes its pretty efficient - the above system seems complicated - how would you value work what unit woul;d you use instead of currency, man hours, pionts what work or task is worth more than another.

No, you simply take whatever you would charge in your normal currency. Its not complicated.

[SubFunk]

Hope it continues to bring up some thoughts!

it does, how to very quickly abuse that system the same way you can abuse the existing or any other system applied to a human.

[Tone Deft]

[bodhi71]

I'm digging it.
But a few questions.
People who are unable to participate, handicapped, ect. how would they survive in this type of system?
Utilities such as gas, water, electric, these companies would never willingly subjugate their enterprise to such a system, meaning how would one be able to afford what we consider a necessity to survival in this system?
In order for this to be viable, one would have to labor their entire day to producing credits or erasing debit to uphold the system, what about the government, how long before they demand taxation, what about property tax, ect.
Say you can get a community of 10,000 people who would like to enjoy the full fruits of their labor, and they band together in an area of proximity, to make it more cohesive, how long before they get Waco'd, about 3 seconds. It would take a mass exodus before it would stand a chance.
Plus those who have so much of themselves invested in the current financial system, through investments, savings, ect. would bawk at the idea of starting over.
Originally, this is the type of system we had. Taxes were instituted to help support the war effort, and it's been on ever since.
I don't believe it can take root unless people are truly educated, woken up, and forced to give it a try.
Why not hire a few hit men, take out those who have corrupted the system ( world bankers, politicians ) make an example out of those who have deceived the public to full fill hidden agendas. Go to the grove and trash em. Same at the buiderburger thing.

[tezz]

It`s probably not your intention but you have just created the right wing utopia.
Congratulations!

[Android Bishop]

money is a unit of energy. energy is defined as that which creates change or has the potential to create change, or "work". money is the uniform, global tool by which property is exchanged between parties and work is done. Getting rid of money wont solve a damn thing, it is an EXCELLENT tool for what it does. The problem isn't the idea of money, the problem is what we are basing money on. If money isn't based upon the actual resources available and is instead based upon arbitrary debt, then its value and efficiency are reduced as more is printed to cover this debt. We dont need to get rid of money or replace it with something else (think about it, "something else" would still be a point system pretty much like money). What we need is to consider new ways to tie money into the resources it is governing and make its function in society more effecient.

[josephjobling]

now that money exists it is almost impossable for it never to exist again. lets face it as far as a system foe credit and debt goes its pretty efficient - the above system seems complicated - how would you value work what unit woul;d you use instead of currency, man hours, pionts what work or task is worth more than another.

No, you simply take whatever you would charge in your normal currency. Its not complicated.

Don't get me wrong but isn't that called money

[Android Bishop]