So is there any progress on the loudness front?
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So is there any progress on the loudness front?
I've been mastering some tracks for friends and myself the last weeks and when I match to other recordings, they are often mastered hot as hell. For example Butter with Hudson Mohawke and Vitalics new album. If I play Vitalic bit to bit to my d/a converter I get audible distorsion as well.
So I wonder if there is any progress here, what do you do, do you master or release as loud as everyone else? I think the artist can have their say, or does the label have some kind of veto? I mean, there has to be some movement of critical mass that are willing to change the situation. From the things I have read a lot of producers blame the artists, at least that started the whole loudness thing. Actually I don't see the meaning to buy tracks that are destroyed by mastering, I have to start rip music from movies
There are som pretty good info on the subject here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
Why don't use the same standard as dolby digital (-20 dBFS), those who want really want compressed dynamics can have it then as well, just that listeners won't need to change the volume control when switching from movies to techno, and to ambient recordings or whatever.
So I wonder if there is any progress here, what do you do, do you master or release as loud as everyone else? I think the artist can have their say, or does the label have some kind of veto? I mean, there has to be some movement of critical mass that are willing to change the situation. From the things I have read a lot of producers blame the artists, at least that started the whole loudness thing. Actually I don't see the meaning to buy tracks that are destroyed by mastering, I have to start rip music from movies
There are som pretty good info on the subject here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
Why don't use the same standard as dolby digital (-20 dBFS), those who want really want compressed dynamics can have it then as well, just that listeners won't need to change the volume control when switching from movies to techno, and to ambient recordings or whatever.
Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
i don't care at all about how loud a track is, only about how good the sound and production is.
for the volume there is a big knob on the system and or a gain, etc...
for the volume there is a big knob on the system and or a gain, etc...
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Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
ahh the loundness wars - alive and well. i am a fan of "quiter" non distorted music with lots of dynamic range nyself - i palyed N.E.R.D's fly or die the other day and it broke my heart when it started to ditort
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Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
But you don't want to sit on the knob the whole day and tweak, and you don't want to blow your years when you change track either. There exists some software and receivers that can control the volume to some extent, but then the implementation is quite bad on portable players. I mean, come on, most tracks are not really mastered that high for the quality of the sound? If you compare the same track mastered with nice dynamics and played at the same sound pressure as a track mastered with 'todays levels' you will think of it as a 128kbit mp3 in comparison.SubFunk wrote:i don't care at all about how loud a track is, only about how good the sound and production is.
for the volume there is a big knob on the system and or a gain, etc...
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Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
It's like the CO2 emissions, nobody wants to be the first one to change, there has to be political regulations , or some standard that everyone has to follow.
Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
no, all i care about levels is that they are the same within one project, e.g. an EP or LP and for that i bring all volumes down to the weakest track... not the other way around and levels in comparison towards other 'commercial' tracks i don't give a flying F.håkan bråkan wrote:But you don't want to sit on the knob the whole day and tweak, and you don't want to blow your years when you change track either. There exists some software and receivers that can control the volume to some extent, but then the implementation is quite bad on portable players. I mean, come on, most tracks are not really mastered that high for the quality of the sound? If you compare the same track mastered with nice dynamics and played at the same sound pressure as a track mastered with 'todays levels' you will think of it as a 128kbit mp3 in comparison.SubFunk wrote:i don't care at all about how loud a track is, only about how good the sound and production is.
for the volume there is a big knob on the system and or a gain, etc...
Last edited by SubFunk on Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
nonsense you need to start, regulationshåkan bråkan wrote:It's like the CO2 emissions, nobody wants to be the first one to change, there has to be political regulations , or some standard that everyone has to follow.
oh my.
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Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
Why do people go on about regulating music?
It's an art form! Manipulating and distorting sounds has been standard practise since tape was invented. You don't ever listen to a snare drum from 3 inches away, so why stick a mic there, as well as one underneath... that's natural as well... but people only question what goes on in music when the dynamics go...
If regulations were put in place, I'd master everything at -3dB RMS.
It's an art form! Manipulating and distorting sounds has been standard practise since tape was invented. You don't ever listen to a snare drum from 3 inches away, so why stick a mic there, as well as one underneath... that's natural as well... but people only question what goes on in music when the dynamics go...
If regulations were put in place, I'd master everything at -3dB RMS.
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Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
Haha, but I mean there are standards for impedance and speakers and stuff, not so dramatic to have some sensible standard for the digital signal, it's far from optimal from an engineering point of view the way it behaves today. All movies are mastered at a calibrated level, we don't need to reinvent the wheel...
Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
Digital does have a standard - No louder than 0dB.håkan bråkan wrote:Haha, but I mean there are standards for impedance and speakers and stuff, not so dramatic to have some sensible standard for the digital signal, it's far from optimal from an engineering point of view the way it behaves today. All movies are mastered at a calibrated level, we don't need to reinvent the wheel...
Films are being played in cinemas and I can't imagine they want to be messing around with volumes between films.
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Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
What I mean is that not all music can be mastered at -3 dB RMS and sound good, but people do it anyway. It's like painting the most beautiful art on a canvas and hang it inside out on the wall.Sage wrote:Why do people go on about regulating music?
It's an art form! Manipulating and distorting sounds has been standard practise since tape was invented. You don't ever listen to a snare drum from 3 inches away, so why stick a mic there, as well as one underneath... that's natural as well... but people only question what goes on in music when the dynamics go...
If regulations were put in place, I'd master everything at -3dB RMS.
Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
he what has volume to do with sound quality? nothing absolute nothing, it is perceived as 'better' from the human ear / brainhåkan bråkan wrote:What I mean is that not all music can be mastered at -3 dB RMS and sound good, but people do it anyway. It's like painting the most beautiful art on a canvas and hang it inside out on the wall.Sage wrote:Why do people go on about regulating music?
It's an art form! Manipulating and distorting sounds has been standard practise since tape was invented. You don't ever listen to a snare drum from 3 inches away, so why stick a mic there, as well as one underneath... that's natural as well... but people only question what goes on in music when the dynamics go...
If regulations were put in place, I'd master everything at -3dB RMS.
but that's the trouble, everything is so loud our days that we are used to it and automatically feel anything with lower volumes is not as good sounding, we lost the ability to listen properly.
that is why i hate the loudness war and of course dynamics are slammed to death... it's destroying opposed to 'it let's music shine'
Last edited by SubFunk on Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
So as a listener with 10 000 tracks I want to sit and mess with that volume knob all day along? It's good with some debate here, probably healthySage wrote:Digital does have a standard - No louder than 0dB.håkan bråkan wrote:Haha, but I mean there are standards for impedance and speakers and stuff, not so dramatic to have some sensible standard for the digital signal, it's far from optimal from an engineering point of view the way it behaves today. All movies are mastered at a calibrated level, we don't need to reinvent the wheel...
Films are being played in cinemas and I can't imagine they want to be messing around with volumes between films.
Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
as you would manage to listen to so many tracks a day, but yeah i don't care to adjust for every single track i listen to at home and when i DJ i use the gain. simple.håkan bråkan wrote:So as a listener with 10 000 tracks I want to sit and mess with that volume knob all day along? It's good with some debate here, probably healthySage wrote:Digital does have a standard - No louder than 0dB.håkan bråkan wrote:Haha, but I mean there are standards for impedance and speakers and stuff, not so dramatic to have some sensible standard for the digital signal, it's far from optimal from an engineering point of view the way it behaves today. All movies are mastered at a calibrated level, we don't need to reinvent the wheel...
Films are being played in cinemas and I can't imagine they want to be messing around with volumes between films.
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Re: So is there any progress on the loudness front?
I'd rather be able to turn up a quit song than have to turn down a loud one because it's distorting .håkan bråkan wrote:So as a listener with 10 000 tracks I want to sit and mess with that volume knob all day along? It's good with some debate here, probably healthySage wrote:Digital does have a standard - No louder than 0dB.håkan bråkan wrote:Haha, but I mean there are standards for impedance and speakers and stuff, not so dramatic to have some sensible standard for the digital signal, it's far from optimal from an engineering point of view the way it behaves today. All movies are mastered at a calibrated level, we don't need to reinvent the wheel...
Films are being played in cinemas and I can't imagine they want to be messing around with volumes between films.