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 Post subject: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:47 pm
Posts: 92
Is it possible to record the automation in to the clips in the clip view from the midi controller, to Live instruments or effects? I can do it easily in arrangement, or if it is a midi controller data for VST. But when automating Live's instruments in clips - only by manual editing.


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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:47 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:45 pm
Posts: 3169
Location: Lost Island
akm wrote:
Is it possible to record the automation in to the clips in the clip view from the midi controller, to Live instruments or effects? I can do it easily in arrangement, or if it is a midi controller data for VST. But when automating Live's instruments in clips - only by manual editing.


You can record MIDI CC only.
Record automation is the most wanted feature since Live 5 when I came on board.

- Best
- Pasha

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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:47 pm
Posts: 92
Ok, I see. Thanks for reply. ))


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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:54 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:06 am
Posts: 1247
Location: The New England Colonies
has anybody actually used a synth that records automation into clips?

it is by far the most obnoxious thing in the world...

its left out for a reason in my opinion

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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:47 pm
Posts: 92
Thats very strange that it is impossible for clips. Some people like me use clips as a kind of sketches so recording automation from external devices is essential.


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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:47 pm
Posts: 92
hurlingdervish wrote:
has anybody actually used a synth that records automation into clips?

it is by far the most obnoxious thing in the world...

its left out for a reason in my opinion

What do yo mean? We are talking about recording the automation to clips from a knobs on midi controller.


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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:06 am
Posts: 1247
Location: The New England Colonies
akm wrote:
hurlingdervish wrote:
has anybody actually used a synth that records automation into clips?

it is by far the most obnoxious thing in the world...

its left out for a reason in my opinion

What do yo mean? We are talking about recording the automation to clips from a knobs on midi controller.

yep thats what im talking about too

i was playing a synth and modulating with midi knobs and with this version it picked up all the automation, it was incredibly annoying

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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 1333
It's the most unbelievable thing about Live but unfortunately it's true. Live won't let you do this due to the limitation in it's code.

NI Maschine, on the other hand, has it's own version of session view that does let you do this. And you can run it inside Live's session view. It integrates pretty well with Live.


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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:13 pm
Posts: 409
Location: Dallas, Tx
my convoluted method for getting around this issue is to record a few bars in arrangement view. then render the arrangement to audio and bring that into my project. Automation recorded. It works pretty good for me.


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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 1333
hurlingdervish wrote:
has anybody actually used a synth that records automation into clips?

it is by far the most obnoxious thing in the world...

its left out for a reason in my opinion

Sorry, but that's the most ignorant thing I've read so far this morning. Live's session view is a pattern based sequencer. Other pattern based sequencers like Korg Electribe and NI Maschine let's you record automation when you tweak knobs on controllers.

It's a design flaw, not "left out for a reason".


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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:06 am
Posts: 1247
Location: The New England Colonies
delicioso wrote:
hurlingdervish wrote:
has anybody actually used a synth that records automation into clips?

it is by far the most obnoxious thing in the world...

its left out for a reason in my opinion

Sorry, but that's the most ignorant thing I've read so far this morning. Live's session view is a pattern based sequencer. Other pattern based sequencers like Korg Electribe and NI Maschine let's you record automation when you tweak knobs on controllers.

It's a design flaw, not "left out for a reason".

im almost 100 percent sure that they designed the relative nature of the automation in session view for a reason. it makes it a more modular environment and allows for custom LFOS and a greater depth of automation when you add the "real" automation
maybe some ABES can clear this up on the design aspect...
but have you actually experienced automation in session view when it does work? i have and it was absolutely horrid and annoying to me...
the relative aspect makes it more geared to performance and making layers of automation instead of altering it for good every time you turn a knob

that said they should put an option in the clips and global prefs for a switch RELATIVE/ABSOLUTE
that way you could keep it modular like the relative or do full automations in session

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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:21 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:45 pm
Posts: 3169
Location: Lost Island
Session View clips record MIDI CC with no problems.
I control external MIDI hardware with that, varying various parameters that
are tied to MIDI CC, like LFO rate, Modultaion, Attack, Cut Off, Resonance.
MIDI CC are recorded in Absolute way. They remain absolute evan after being recorded
in Arrangement view. There are synths, like Zebra or Sampler or Omnisphere
that react to MIDI CC. Sampler has limited MIDI CC control but enough to modify the
sound. If for example you assign Mod Wheel to Filter CutOff, you can record
this MIDI CC and Sampler will react to it when clip is launched.
Zebra is better controlled through MIDI CC via its XY controls and internal
MIDI Learn. Map Zebra parameters to a set of MIDI CC and that will offer you
'automation control' on sound parameters on a clip. I do not own omnisphere
but a friend does and he assures me that is the same.
So all that can be controlled by pure MIDI CC can be automated in clips.
The strange thing here is that it seems that Live devices do not react to MIDI CC,
even when they are mapped to it. This is a bigger flaw than not being able to
record automation into clips. The only valid reason I might imagine for this is
that you can map MIDI CC to Live Instruments and VSTs via direct controller
assignment in session view for real time live performance. Maybe the on stage
attitude of Live had to cut corners to provide on stage controlling performance
(Audio & MIDI) without flaws. Let's never forget where Live comes from.

- My 2 cents
- Pasha

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Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha


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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:40 am
Posts: 2230
I usually set up a bass rack with effects, chain selector to flip through effects then record that into another track while playing live.. This way I don't need all the effects changes and stuff to be printed with MIDI it's just recorded into the clip as audio.

So I play a synth bass into a wobble effect and use a smart knob set up to switch the wobble speed or bring it back to normal.. This would be a pain in the ass to get all that stuff to print into a clip in Session, (not even possible AFAIK) but if I just record that into another track it's all there, this definitely works in a Live setting but I wish I could record those automations into the clip and then when I use that clip in Arrangement I'd have the ability to mess with those automations.


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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:50 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:28 am
Posts: 5377
Yea its super annoying to no be able to record session automation into clips. There's a great discussion somewhere on here where the Abes describe exactly what the design problem is and ask for suggestions on a resolution that doesn't involve a complete re-write of Live. It's a deeply rooted problem apparently. IMO they could make it work if they wanted to....I can record automation in vst plugins using CC#s just fine, so why the hell can't they make something like that work for their own plugins? I think they said they just didn't want to cobble something together, but figure out a real solution. Ok, well get on it!

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 Post subject: Re: How to record automation in to the clips?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:53 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:40 am
Posts: 2230
I think you're referring to the post made my Robert Henke, that shit was way over my head but I got the jest of it..


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