What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
H20nly
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by H20nly » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:20 pm

Parametex wrote:
H20nly wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:if you ask me Kraftwerk are probably one of the most influential groups of the 20th century.
:lol: I never heard of Kraftwerk until 2008, and I still have never listened one of their tunes
That's not something to be proud of.
Personally I think it's important to have at least a basic understanding of the history of modern music.


Ignorance is bliss
What the fuck is that shit ^ ?

I never typed that.

If you can't even pull off a quote properly then don't try to imply you know anything about my level of intelligence. check yourself.

And for the record I NEVER said I don't know who Kraftwerk are. I wasn't debating their existence or their influence on certain artists. I was challenging the notion that someone can't have at least a basic understanding of modern music without knowing who they are. There are way too many genres of music to make a broad statement like that. Basic levels of understanding don't encompass every aspect of a subject hence the "basic" designation.


ThrowAway wrote:You guys are high on your "music history intellectualism" if you think kraftwerk doesnt sound dated. That statement alone almost discredits anything else youve said.
+1


Oh and one more thing "for the record". I'm not making electrotechnodancemo music with Live. Kraftwerk don't have shit to do with my live bass lines, natural sounding drums, guitar parts, rapping and singing vocals... so put that in your damn Kraftwerk softsynth pipe and try and smoke it.
In the meantime, I'm gonna keep using Live anyway...

Da hand
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by Da hand » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:51 pm

starving student wrote:to me it sounds like what's really bothering some of these kids is that they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that todays music is basicly shit compared to the music of yesteryear and that's not some old fogey talk either, alot of the smarter kids are finding this out and searching out this music. there was a time when saying the old stuff was better just meant that you were some parent or other that's out of touch and can't hear what your kids could hear but that is no longer the case.
Sorry dude, but that is grandpa talk, no matter how you try to deny it.
starving student wrote: since the underground and mainstreams major shift to software the music has been super shitty at best, and of course there are exceptions but on a whole it's been terrible. None of this should suprise anyone since it's not rocket science, electronic musicians used to play electronic music and now all we do is program electronic music why in hell would anybody in their right mind think that the music of today should be better hahahhah!
I really don't get the reasoning here. Are you saying that composed (programmed) music is worse than recordings of live jams (which was never really the case anyway)? Please explain.

starving student wrote: none of the music coming out today is memorable none of it (bar exceptions)
So is it none, most, some? None or exceptions, can't have it both ways. By the way, what music are you listening to? Maybe you need to listen to better electronic music. :wink:
starving student wrote: alot of these ducks are just letting follow actions and random generators write songs for them WTF just sit down and write a damn song for petes sake
Again, that is a very narrow view. Many artists are not doing this.
starving student wrote: here's a little test write a song and if the non-glitched non-distorted version of your song doesn't sound as good as the same song glitched and distorted to all eternity then you know the song is really crap.
I don't get this test at all. What does it prove?

starving student wrote:..lets hear some electronic musicians unplugged..
Do you understand electronic music? What do you want exactly? to hear techno on a guitar? Does that make it more "musical" somehow?

By the way, not trying to start a fight or anything. I would just like further explanation, as I cannot really agree with most of what you said. In all music genres there is a ton of mediocre stuff and a smaller percentage of real gems. :wink:

Grappadura
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by Grappadura » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:52 pm

starving student wrote:
Grappadura wrote:
starving student wrote:to me it sounds like what's really bothering some of these kids is that they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that todays music is basicly shit compared to the music of yesteryear and that's not some old fogey talk either, alot of the smarter kids are finding this out and searching out this music. there was a time when saying the old stuff was better just meant that you were some parent or other that's out of touch and can't hear what your kids could hear but that is no longer the case.

since the underground and mainstreams major shift to software the music has been super shitty at best, and of course there are exceptions but on a whole it's been terrible. None of this should suprise anyone since it's not rocket science, electronic musicians used to play electronic music and now all we do is program electronic music why in hell would anybody in their right mind think that the music of today should be better hahahhah!

it even seems like the majority of software developers know more than their customer base because the majority of software developement has gone in the direction of emulation, trying to emulate this or that from the past
and theres no need for me to jot down a list for you cause you know them all already, that's why cats like jeremy ellis, dorian concept and elliot are going in a different direction than the mass of crap artist out there cause even really young kids are starting to see and hear things differently.
I really think it has to do with the advent of music blogs and all these kids downloading all this music that sounds like shit they could never in a million years hear from their favorite fab flavor of the month electronic
music artist and they are starting to draw distinctions.

none of the music coming out today is memorable none of it (bar exceptions)
alot of these ducks are just letting follow actions and random generators write songs for them WTF just sit down and write a damn song for petes sake

here's a little test write a song and if the non-glitched non-distorted version of your song doesn't sound as good as the same song glitched and distorted to all eternity then you know the song is really crap.

I want to start seeing some beatbattles and remix contest where using efx is against the rules, lets hear some electronic musicians unplugged and hear what's really goin on,, todays artist couldn't even fuck with duran duran when it comes to writing music and you got the nerve to think you could fuck with kraftwerk............fucoutta here.......
Why do you want to turn back the clock. Some of todays music is all about effects, and that is whats new about this day and age. It is also an art that can be perfected, and just as valid as any other art. I find it even more inspiring to work on music like on a sculpture, and the effects are your chizzle.
not what I'm saying at all, I use effects as well, my point was otherwise
I'm sure you're not equating learning how to play an instrument with turning back the clock, and I'm sure you're not equating letting computers write the songs for you with turning back the clock.
Sure, its a good thing to learn an instrument, my point is a good effect artist is just as fine as a good instrument artist. So the point you were making about stripping songs of its effects is pointless if you see working with effects as an art.

SubFunk
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by SubFunk » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:55 pm

Sure, its a good thing to learn an instrument, my point is a good effect artist is just as fine as a good instrument artist. So the point you were making about stripping songs of its effects is pointless if you see working with effects as an art.
:roll:

i don't know to me an effect artist is just the makeup not the real deal. it can of course add and change things in a major way.

but it's like: have you seen the trailer to it might get loud...? the edge is playing a riff there with a hell lot of efx... but it's his playing which is from way greater importance... then the effect that is responsible for the sound, you can hear and create something without efx, but not with just effects...

effects are always only and nothing else but 'makeup' and an alteration... never just music.

my2cents

and the use of efx is at least to me not an art whatsoever.

playing an instrument however is.
*** Image GAFM ***

H20nly
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by H20nly » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:02 am

gjm wrote:Last time I was missing 5% of the puzzle pieces I had more than a basic understanding of the big picture
I lost this quote in the pages of ensuing hype after I called bullshit yesterday. It sums up all I was ever trying to say or imply rather.

Some of you guys are so into electro shit you forget that there is a whole other world of music out there... that and the fact that a large portion of electro stuff is borrowing from other genres anyway... just because you scramble an egg doesn't make it any less of an egg. My compliments to the chefs.

Kraftwerk are influential. OK, but don't let their influence blind you to the rest of the puzzle.

And to get back on topic... since they're so influential lets play another "basic" game of applying their influence - don't use Macs.

Grappadura
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by Grappadura » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:12 am

SubFunk wrote:
Sure, its a good thing to learn an instrument, my point is a good effect artist is just as fine as a good instrument artist. So the point you were making about stripping songs of its effects is pointless if you see working with effects as an art.
:roll:

i don't know to me an effect artist is just the makeup not the real deal. it can of course add and change things in a major way.

but it's like: have you seen the trailer to it might get loud...? the edge is playing a riff there with a hell lot of efx... but it's his playing which is from way greater importance... then the effect that is responsible for the sound, you can hear and create something without efx, but not with just effects...

effects are always only and nothing else but 'makeup' and an alteration... never just music.

my2cents

and the use of efx is at least to me not an art whatsoever.

playing an instrument however is.
For me, effects and instruments allow me to place sound in space and time. I see it as a unit.

starving student
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by starving student » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:49 am

Da hand wrote:
starving student wrote:to me it sounds like what's really bothering some of these kids is that they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that todays music is basicly shit compared to the music of yesteryear and that's not some old fogey talk either, alot of the smarter kids are finding this out and searching out this music. there was a time when saying the old stuff was better just meant that you were some parent or other that's out of touch and can't hear what your kids could hear but that is no longer the case.
Sorry dude, but that is grandpa talk, no matter how you try to deny it.
starving student wrote: since the underground and mainstreams major shift to software the music has been super shitty at best, and of course there are exceptions but on a whole it's been terrible. None of this should suprise anyone since it's not rocket science, electronic musicians used to play electronic music and now all we do is program electronic music why in hell would anybody in their right mind think that the music of today should be better hahahhah!
I really don't get the reasoning here. Are you saying that composed (programmed) music is worse than recordings of live jams (which was never really the case anyway)? Please explain.

starving student wrote: none of the music coming out today is memorable none of it (bar exceptions)
So is it none, most, some? None or exceptions, can't have it both ways. By the way, what music are you listening to? Maybe you need to listen to better electronic music. :wink:
starving student wrote: alot of these ducks are just letting follow actions and random generators write songs for them WTF just sit down and write a damn song for petes sake
Again, that is a very narrow view. Many artists are not doing this.
starving student wrote: here's a little test write a song and if the non-glitched non-distorted version of your song doesn't sound as good as the same song glitched and distorted to all eternity then you know the song is really crap.
I don't get this test at all. What does it prove?

starving student wrote:..lets hear some electronic musicians unplugged..
Do you understand electronic music? What do you want exactly? to hear techno on a guitar? Does that make it more "musical" somehow?

By the way, not trying to start a fight or anything. I would just like further explanation, as I cannot really agree with most of what you said. In all music genres there is a ton of mediocre stuff and a smaller percentage of real gems. :wink:
no offense taken man but it looks like you're trying way to hard to discredit my opinion when at the end of all of that you exclaim exactly what all I've said means

"all music genres there is a ton of mediocre stuff and a smaller percentage of real gems. "
I think I even said as much but it looks like you didn't read that part of my post cause you didn't quote it.

starving student
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by starving student » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:59 am

btw, I'm no grandpa, so it couldn't be grandpa talk, I'm one of those youngsters not afraid of the past which is why I sound like an old soul around here, you shouldn't be afraid of the past either, it's where wisdom
comes from.

nothing I posted in this thread has anything to do with being against effects, what I posted has to do with the mediocrity across all genres
and how technology is a driving force behind it in this day and age.

doesn't matter what area you're talking about, that's why there's less dynamics in music today, that's why the medium we use to listen to music is of less quaulity, that's why there's more emphasis on programming than musicianship

Da hand
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by Da hand » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:49 am

starving student wrote:
Da hand wrote:
starving student wrote:to me it sounds like what's really bothering some of these kids is that they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that todays music is basicly shit compared to the music of yesteryear and that's not some old fogey talk either, alot of the smarter kids are finding this out and searching out this music. there was a time when saying the old stuff was better just meant that you were some parent or other that's out of touch and can't hear what your kids could hear but that is no longer the case.
Sorry dude, but that is grandpa talk, no matter how you try to deny it.
starving student wrote: since the underground and mainstreams major shift to software the music has been super shitty at best, and of course there are exceptions but on a whole it's been terrible. None of this should suprise anyone since it's not rocket science, electronic musicians used to play electronic music and now all we do is program electronic music why in hell would anybody in their right mind think that the music of today should be better hahahhah!
I really don't get the reasoning here. Are you saying that composed (programmed) music is worse than recordings of live jams (which was never really the case anyway)? Please explain.

starving student wrote: none of the music coming out today is memorable none of it (bar exceptions)
So is it none, most, some? None or exceptions, can't have it both ways. By the way, what music are you listening to? Maybe you need to listen to better electronic music. :wink:
starving student wrote: alot of these ducks are just letting follow actions and random generators write songs for them WTF just sit down and write a damn song for petes sake
Again, that is a very narrow view. Many artists are not doing this.
starving student wrote: here's a little test write a song and if the non-glitched non-distorted version of your song doesn't sound as good as the same song glitched and distorted to all eternity then you know the song is really crap.
I don't get this test at all. What does it prove?

starving student wrote:..lets hear some electronic musicians unplugged..
Do you understand electronic music? What do you want exactly? to hear techno on a guitar? Does that make it more "musical" somehow?

By the way, not trying to start a fight or anything. I would just like further explanation, as I cannot really agree with most of what you said. In all music genres there is a ton of mediocre stuff and a smaller percentage of real gems. :wink:
no offense taken man but it looks like you're trying way to hard to discredit my opinion when at the end of all of that you exclaim exactly what all I've said means

"all music genres there is a ton of mediocre stuff and a smaller percentage of real gems. "
I think I even said as much but it looks like you didn't read that part of my post cause you didn't quote it.
Lol. Ok, if that is what you were saying - I'll try to find it in there.

starving student
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by starving student » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:17 am

yeah sometimes its hard to convey meaning over the webernets but that's what I was saying with the addition of this, before software/technology dominance in the industry and artform there was less of this mediocrity though there was still some.
but the best way to say it is simply this, today there isn't music being made that is as influential as the music period of the past that we are discussing right now. It's not all technologys fault or rather maybe not at all, it's more of the culture that persist that relies on tech so heavily.

Da hand
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by Da hand » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:06 am

but the best way to say it is simply this, today there isn't music being made that is as influential as the music period of the past that we are discussing right now. It's not all technologys fault or rather maybe not at all, it's more of the culture that persist that relies on tech so heavily.
hmm. I think there is a lot of influential music being made today, but sometimes it is easier to look back at artists 30 or 40 years (or more) ago and see clearly their influence, than it is to see the influence happening in the present. You can see it, though, if you follow what is happening in a given genre very closely. Of course, depending on what genre you are looking at the changes can be greater or smaller.

starving student
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by starving student » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:17 am

Da hand wrote:
but the best way to say it is simply this, today there isn't music being made that is as influential as the music period of the past that we are discussing right now. It's not all technologys fault or rather maybe not at all, it's more of the culture that persist that relies on tech so heavily.
hmm. I think there is a lot of influential music being made today, but sometimes it is easier to look back at artists 30 or 40 years (or more) ago and see clearly their influence, than it is to see the influence happening in the present. You can see it, though, if you follow what is happening in a given genre very closely. Of course, depending on what genre you are looking at the changes can be greater or smaller.

who's the most influential electronic musician of today?

Da hand
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by Da hand » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:10 am

starving student wrote:
Da hand wrote:
but the best way to say it is simply this, today there isn't music being made that is as influential as the music period of the past that we are discussing right now. It's not all technologys fault or rather maybe not at all, it's more of the culture that persist that relies on tech so heavily.
hmm. I think there is a lot of influential music being made today, but sometimes it is easier to look back at artists 30 or 40 years (or more) ago and see clearly their influence, than it is to see the influence happening in the present. You can see it, though, if you follow what is happening in a given genre very closely. Of course, depending on what genre you are looking at the changes can be greater or smaller.

who's the most influential electronic musician of today?
Well, that is the problem right there. People talk of electronic music like it is one genre of music. It embodies many many very different sounding genres of music. It is like saying who is the most influential artist of all music containing/using a guitar.

It is also hard to really pick one artist, as there is usually a group of people starting a certain movement.

In techno music, in terms of a big influence building across the board in the last 10 years, I would say it is Richie Hawtin. If you look at what techno music was at the end of the 90's and start of 00's and what it is today (the huge tempo slowdown - it was around 140 before and now around 125, the minimal elements and sound design, etc). There is your influence. Of course he has been heavily influenced by others from Detroit and Germany, but his minus label is a huge contribution - as it embodies many artists in the same movement.

There are many others, of course, and many other artists which influence me personally, but if I had to pick only one for techno music, there is my choice.

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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:19 am

H20nly wrote: Kraftwerk are influential. OK, but don't let their influence blind you to the rest of the puzzle.
Not the point, the simple basic point is certain groups influence and create whole genres. Again, Kraftwerk, Black Sabbath, The Ramones, Kool Herc/Grandmaster Flash, TG..... Electronic music, Metal, Punk, Hip Hop, and Industrial. These groups aren't minor influences, these are huge ground breaking core genres. Again, you're debating air here, no one ever said Kraftwerk were the ONLY major music group of the last 40 years, just that they are a core influence on whole genres of music.

Jesus? this isn't even some intellectual wankery, this is basic shit. Are you going to deny the influence of James Brown or Parliment next? Again, if you don't know who James Brown is or what his influence is on modern music, it shows a lack of basic understanding of music history. :P

starving student
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Re: What PRO isn't using a Mac on stage?

Post by starving student » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:51 am

Machinesworking wrote:

Jesus? this isn't even some intellectual wankery, this is basic shit. Are you going to deny the influence of James Brown or Parliment next? Again, if you don't know who James Brown is or what his influence is on modern music, it shows a lack of basic understanding of music history. :P
thankyou

@ dahand, ritchie hawtin doesn't even come close to any of the other influential artist being discussed, that's all that's being said, and thats
especially of interest since he's taken full advantage of all of this futuristic tech we have at our disposal so he should be at least 50% as influential right? this technology hasn't helped anyone be as influential as the beatles, michael jackson, kraftwerk, hell even the wutang clan is more influential than ritchie hawtin.

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