Midi Warping

KainProject · Post by **KainProject** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:01 am

Can it be done? Will it be possible with MaxForLive?

4.33 · Post by **4.33** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:29 am

huh? the whole point of warping is to stretch audio, while you could stretch midi notes since the fall of the roman empire

nathannn · Post by **nathannn** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:47 am

maybe he is saying he would like an adjustable grid.. say you play a drum beat and it has a swing to it.. it would be cool to adjust the whole grid to match that swing.. and if the swing stops you could adjust it back..
it would be very use full. currently on every daw when you play a beat that has a swing every thing looks out of time and it becomes dificult to create other midi tracks within the current grid system that match the beat with swing.
i know there is extract groove but its not the same.. when using extract groove everything besides the beat you extracted a groove from lines to the grid perfectly.

maybe this isnt what he wants but i think its something thats very lacking in daws.. and it seems so simple..
we already have multible time signatures where the grid adjust to the time signature..now we need a grid to adjust to swing.

the way i picture it being done is, you record yourself playing a midi clip.. then just drag the grid lines to match the clip.. then click an option that says adjust grid to swing..maybe insert a swing marker in the arrange view just like you would with a time sig marker.. and when you want to switch the swing you would insert another marker just like time sigs..

KainProject · Post by **KainProject** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:17 am

nathannn wrote:maybe he is saying he would like an adjustable grid.. say you play a drum beat and it has a swing to it.. it would be cool to adjust the whole grid to match that swing.. and if the swing stops you could adjust it back..
it would be very use full. currently on every daw when you play a beat that has a swing every thing looks out of time and it becomes dificult to create other midi tracks within the current grid system that match the beat with swing.
i know there is extract groove but its not the same.. when using extract groove everything besides the beat you extracted a groove from lines to the grid perfectly.

maybe this isnt what he wants but i think its something thats very lacking in daws.. and it seems so simple..
we already have multible time signatures where the grid adjust to the time signature..now we need a grid to adjust to swing.

the way i picture it being done is, you record yourself playing a midi clip.. then just drag the grid lines to match the clip.. then click an option that says adjust grid to swing..maybe insert a swing marker in the arrange view just like you would with a time sig marker.. and when you want to switch the swing you would insert another marker just like time sigs..

Yes! That's it. My workflow is launching Live and pressing record.. No metronome just feeling, once you have a song created it is very very hard to try and arrange the bloody thing let alone finish it.

KainProject · Post by **KainProject** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:22 am

- Crop clip function but: Snaps the notes to a quantization that is equal to the selected area, but over a fixed grid amount (for example 4/4).

I really hope this will be added if not possible in some way already. The whole point of making music is 'feeling' why should we be constricted by these laws.. looper was a good shot in the right direction, but c'mon be honest.. it failed..

4.33 · Post by **4.33** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:45 am

KainProject wrote:
nathannn wrote:maybe he is saying he would like an adjustable grid.. say you play a drum beat and it has a swing to it.. it would be cool to adjust the whole grid to match that swing.. and if the swing stops you could adjust it back..
it would be very use full. currently on every daw when you play a beat that has a swing every thing looks out of time and it becomes dificult to create other midi tracks within the current grid system that match the beat with swing.
i know there is extract groove but its not the same.. when using extract groove everything besides the beat you extracted a groove from lines to the grid perfectly.

maybe this isnt what he wants but i think its something thats very lacking in daws.. and it seems so simple..
we already have multible time signatures where the grid adjust to the time signature..now we need a grid to adjust to swing.

the way i picture it being done is, you record yourself playing a midi clip.. then just drag the grid lines to match the clip.. then click an option that says adjust grid to swing..maybe insert a swing marker in the arrange view just like you would with a time sig marker.. and when you want to switch the swing you would insert another marker just like time sigs..

Yes! That's it. My workflow is launching Live and pressing record.. No metronome just feeling, once you have a song created it is very very hard to try and arrange the bloody thing let alone finish it.

that's one of the things why i've switched to reaper for arranging.
you can totally do that there, using a function called 'set project time from time selection'

nathannn · Post by **nathannn** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:19 am

4.33 wrote:
KainProject wrote:
nathannn wrote:maybe he is saying he would like an adjustable grid.. say you play a drum beat and it has a swing to it.. it would be cool to adjust the whole grid to match that swing.. and if the swing stops you could adjust it back..
it would be very use full. currently on every daw when you play a beat that has a swing every thing looks out of time and it becomes dificult to create other midi tracks within the current grid system that match the beat with swing.
i know there is extract groove but its not the same.. when using extract groove everything besides the beat you extracted a groove from lines to the grid perfectly.

maybe this isnt what he wants but i think its something thats very lacking in daws.. and it seems so simple..
we already have multible time signatures where the grid adjust to the time signature..now we need a grid to adjust to swing.

the way i picture it being done is, you record yourself playing a midi clip.. then just drag the grid lines to match the clip.. then click an option that says adjust grid to swing..maybe insert a swing marker in the arrange view just like you would with a time sig marker.. and when you want to switch the swing you would insert another marker just like time sigs..

Yes! That's it. My workflow is launching Live and pressing record.. No metronome just feeling, once you have a song created it is very very hard to try and arrange the bloody thing let alone finish it.

that's one of the things why i've switched to reaper for arranging.
you can totally do that there, using a function called 'set project time from time selection'

no shit? im downloading it.

4.33 · Post by **4.33** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:24 am

nathannn wrote: no shit? im downloading it.

make sure to also download the manual and prepare to be blown away.
during the last few days while i was reading it - i couldn't help but having multiple mental orgasms.

nathannn · Post by **nathannn** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:38 pm

ok tried reaper.. not really what i was hoping for.. the action is called set project tempo from tempo selection and it only works with audio from what i have seen...
are you getting the grid to actually move to the swing of a midi clip?
maybe im overlooking something but, i have searched and searched and the closest daw that sorta does this is pro tools using beat detective..
but from what i read it the grid only adjust to the track you are working on.. not the whole arrangement...

nathannn · Post by **nathannn** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:40 pm

i am going to bump the shit out of this thread..

4.33 · Post by **4.33** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:50 pm

well, no the grid doesnt move along with the groove. most times i want grid off anyway.
reaper is very good at detecting the tempo. so you can create your groove, detect the tempo, create region and multiply it, while keeping the first downbeat in place for orientation.
i'm a complete n00b in reaper so far, but this feature alone (and customizable actions) have won me over live's arrange

The Carpet Cleaner · Post by **The Carpet Cleaner** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:57 pm

hum, why not trying that :
you start jamming with you piano or instrument, etc...
find something good, you feel the groove.
then you just tap the temps and hence you got the bpm in live.
then you can process to the next step and record a "proper" clip with the metronome.

dna598 · Post by **dna598** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:34 pm

um, you can stretch midi selections in ableton using stretch notes command.

steff3 · Post by **steff3** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:03 pm

I am asking for that feature since Live 4 public beta ....

There are thousands of useful things one can do with that. Funnily, about every other DAW is better in this regard by now (Cubase has flex editing of timeline since SX3, Digital Performer has that since decades, Logic has flex timeline since version 7) .....
The interesting thing in Live would be that it is totally non-destructive and not necessarily influencing the tempo track ...

Well, ....

best

steff3 · Post by **steff3** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:10 pm

[quote="dna598"]um, you can stretch midi selections in ableton using stretch notes command.[/quote]

But that is a painful workflow if you ever worked with Cubase, Logic or DP stretched and squeezed the time around MIDI events. With that workflow it is more convenient and faster to export MIDI, load it into DP, edit it there and transfer it back to Live ... hmmm, why record in Live in the first place?

best

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