MFL $299 USD

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
zalo
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by zalo » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:04 am

i can understand people not having 300 dollars to spend on this, and that being the reason for not purchasing

but people who say that its not worth the money or that max is too difficult so they would only use others creations

that blows my mind, firstly, i am certain that even without you yourself doing any programing, in 3 monthes there will be clones of thousands dollars worth of VSTs/AUs made inside M4L

second, max is easy, every object has a help file, me being excited about M4L, i downloaded the max 5 demo to see what i could create, after 1 day i had usable functional midi generation tools

i am pondering purchasing max 5 edu since it will only be 50 dollars more for both with the crossgrade than just purchasing M4L
setskip wrote:I didn't think you need M4L to run max patches in live. Only need it if you want to create / edit patches. Think I saw that C74 are going to stop selling a max runtime in favour of hosting the runtime in Live.
they discontinued pluggo, not the max runtime (which is free)

no where have i read patches will work without M4L

3dot...
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by 3dot... » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:53 am

setskip wrote:I didn't think you need M4L to run max patches in live. Only need it if you want to create / edit patches. Think I saw that C74 are going to stop selling a max runtime in favour of hosting the runtime in Live.
the max runtime is free,,,
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steff3
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by steff3 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:59 am

[quote="squelcht"]
For the record---stop the bitching. $300 bucks? Gimmie a break... Months down the road once you see how many patches & fun shit their is to play w/ you'll wonder wtf was Ableton thinking trying to sell a FM synth for $120 when I invested only $300 & now I have a hundred FM synths to play with--a hundred effects--a hundred variations of sequencers---the list goes on. Do the friggn' math people, the deal is a no-brainer---no matter if your programming or just playing.[/quote]

hmmm, two words ... efficiency and sound quality .... I love Max/MSP-Jitter, but a modular approach and interactive approach like Max/MSP always has to trade off when it comes to efficiency and to some degree also sound quality.

If that does not matter for you, well, then you are right ....

best

leonard
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by leonard » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:30 am

d-track wrote:
Android Bishop wrote:reaktor costs more than this and it doesnt do HALF the shit M4L can. jesus christ what a bunch of crybabies some of you are
yes but max is very slow.
reaktor is about 2 times faster than max, but it doesnt support video (unless you are into coding)
really? i'm very interested as to the performance of mfl. has anyone done any benchmarks? i.e. how many sine waves can you generate at one without locking it up?
???

leonard
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by leonard » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:32 am

ph and 250 is nothing. my guess is the people who are complaining about the price don't fully realise what max/msp/jitter is. "infinite" is a bit rich, but suffice to say your needs will be covered, in one way or another.
???

Freekster
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by Freekster » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:00 am

metasymbol wrote:I think we need a Max4Live Lite version (load Max patches but not to edit them) for a nice price like less then 49 € and I will eventually buy it, if there is a good amount of free max patches available.
+1

I have no intrest or time to do my own M4L patches but I would like to use stuff that ppl will create. I rather pay $99 for the M4L lite and the donate the $200 for the developers who make the great M4L patches.

$299 is not a lot if you into MAX, but it is a lot for rest of us who don't need the "endless possibilities" of Max.

Rave
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by Rave » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:02 am

leonard wrote:ph and 250 is nothing. my guess is the people who are complaining about the price don't fully realise what max/msp/jitter is. "infinite" is a bit rich, but suffice to say your needs will be covered, in one way or another.

Maybe this is the problem, it hasnt been sold very well.

I want to see usable tools, patches, apps what ever you care to call them. I am not interested in a dev kit , full stop. I would quite happily drop the 249 euros if I knew what patches I was getting for my money. I havent see anything to justify the price tag yet.

How long has max been around? If it is so fooking great then why havent we seen much development for us Ableton users hey? They even have a free run time, why dont we?

Give me concrete examples of what it can do in a manner we can identify with. If MAX has such a wonderful community they do a great job of keeping it quiet and if 4/4 is representive of said community then I want nothing to do with it.

chris vine
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by chris vine » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:09 pm

^ +1

jhartford
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by jhartford » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:13 pm

I've gotta say all this hype around a paid for run time/free run time is annoying... I'm really glad that albeton haven't offered it. Now before you all get out your pitchforks here's why:

If we want max for live to be the revolutionary software that its being hyped to be then there needs to be a community that surrounds it, not a bunch of people waiting around for a couple of people to release a bunch of free pseudo vsts.

Sure, there will be people who will make amazing things with it, but you shouldn't be buying it solely for that. The main reason you should be excited for m4l is the freedom it will provide in allowing you to use Live in a unique way. For example -
i'm currently using Max to ramp live's tempo from one song to the next so that i can do dj-style mixes between our songs when playing in the session view, while still playing the parts that i'm mixing (rather than having a hand on a controller). and the patch knows the previous tempo, so if its a large tempo change it will happen slower so its subtle.
I'm also using it to control dmx lights via midi. And to make a joystick send out midi.
None of this is particularly revolutionary. Most of it can be done in one way or another either in Live itself or using third party software but not nearly as elegantly. And no, i'm no max guru. I struggled my way through the lights patch and in doing so learned enough to do the other to. These are really simple max patches, but they allow our live show to be slightly more unique.

I first tried out max years ago cause I was (and still am) a huge Radiohead and Johnny Greenwood - i remember reading a quote where he said he used it cause it doesn't try and push you in a certain direction. He argued that every other piece of music software pushed you towards a certain kind of work flow. Think of all the ableton djs who just use only beat repeat here... Anyway, I tried it, hated it and got Live instead. I only went back to it when i moved over to a mac and wanted to continue running DMX lights in sync with my set, but couldn't use VVVV anymore (i won't go into it here, but its surprisingly difficult to just control lights directly with midi).

Now in terms of how i'd use it going forward - I was thinking the other day about how i could do drummagog type drum replacement when we record our new album. Slice to midi is useful, but not very elegant for using on a kick track where you want all the midi notes on the same note for sample replacement. Here's where m4l would step it. Simple patch that takes audio in, and when it gets over a threshold outputs a midi note. Drop that on a kick track and you got sample replacement that responds to any drum editing you do. This could all be done in 5 mins once you get your head round it. And it will become part of your work flow. Just like how racks may have initially intimidated people, but now if an experienced Live user wants a dry wet control on an effect he/she can have it in under a minute using racks.

So the point of this ramble is that if you're prepared to learn it max for live will probably end up speeding up your work flow in the studio and will definitely allow for more unique performances. But none of this will happen if you just rely on it for other people's clever toys. Sure there will be loads of those i'm sure, but m4l is far more than that. And yeah, there's a risk you'll lose some music making time learning it, but you also lost music making time learning Live - you could've been playing an instrument rather than learning what follow actions do, but once you learn them, you find they may be useful to making more interesting music. The same will apply with M4L...

So stop whining about the fact that you can't just buy into an endless supply of cheap/free step sequencers and think about how you might be able to use it for useful little things.

And then work out how to make nine inch nail's step sequencer with M4L (btw, its totally possible cause of the inclusion of Jitter)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53S5wTWB ... r_embedded

Machinesworking
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:37 pm

HUGE +1,000,000!
@jhartford

audiovoid
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by audiovoid » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:04 am

299 usd is like a big slap in the face to all of us loyal users who have been with Live since many previous versions and who have spent thousands of dollars in just upgrades alone.

I honestly was expecting the typical 199 upgrade price which I still wouldn't have been stoked on paying. But 299? Ableton can lick my nut sack for 299
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Machinesworking
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:00 am

audiovoid wrote:Ableton can lick my nut sack for 299
Considering Ableton have done marginal coding on Max/MSP, a full featured work environment older than Live, you're barking up the wrong tree here. It's cool that this is happening but to think that Ableton are really making anything off this at all is silly, I'm sure it's almost a wash for them as far as any little amount of that $299 that they keep, it's about extending Live for people who want Max/MSP in Live.

A wild guess is Ableton are making a whole $25 off of every Max/MSP sale which almost certainly will be eaten up in customer support costs. :lol: The rest will go to Cycling 74.

stringtapper
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by stringtapper » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:03 am

audiovoid wrote:299 usd is like a big slap in the face to all of us loyal users who have been with Live since many previous versions and who have spent thousands of dollars in just upgrades alone.

I honestly was expecting the typical 199 upgrade price which I still wouldn't have been stoked on paying. But 299? Ableton can lick my nut sack for 299
So I go to a restaurant for years and suddenly they owe me a steak?

Here's my first Max for Live device just for you:

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Tone Deft
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:07 am

woot~
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Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, guitars, JX305, Nova
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leonard
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Re: MFL $299 USD

Post by leonard » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:18 am

Rave wrote:
leonard wrote:ph and 250 is nothing. my guess is the people who are complaining about the price don't fully realise what max/msp/jitter is. "infinite" is a bit rich, but suffice to say your needs will be covered, in one way or another.

Maybe this is the problem, it hasnt been sold very well.

I want to see usable tools, patches, apps what ever you care to call them. I am not interested in a dev kit , full stop. I would quite happily drop the 249 euros if I knew what patches I was getting for my money. I havent see anything to justify the price tag yet.

How long has max been around? If it is so fooking great then why havent we seen much development for us Ableton users hey? They even have a free run time, why dont we?

Give me concrete examples of what it can do in a manner we can identify with. If MAX has such a wonderful community they do a great job of keeping it quiet and if 4/4 is representive of said community then I want nothing to do with it.
http://web.archive.org/web/200808021107 ... cts/pluggo
thats an interweb archive link, maybe it wont work as well as it should.
40 of these will be included as content, from what i read. just give it time, the beta only just went public, the software isn't even released yet.
If MAX has such a wonderful community they do a great job of keeping it quiet
i've never had a problem getting help from the max community when i needed it.
???

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