Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Rave
Posts: 6152
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:26 am

Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Rave » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:41 pm

4/4 wrote:
I guess you don't own PLUGGO

I guess you don't write / produce music LOL

4/4
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:23 pm

Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by 4/4 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:49 pm

Rave, would it be too much to ask you to stop attempting to troll me ? Enough with the PMs too, I obviously won't reply.
Image

Rave
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Rave » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:53 pm

4/4 wrote:Rave, would it be too much to ask you to stop attempting to troll me ? Enough with the PMs too, I obviously won't reply.
WTF! One PM LOL 1 PM to u counts as plural/spam LOL

Let's not make war/patches/apps

Let's make music :)

Mines in my sig, where's yours big man who hides his identity?

4/4
Posts: 255
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by 4/4 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:55 pm

Rave, old bean.

All I have done thus far is discuss M4L and pricing policies, whilst diligently ignoring the troll bait you and Neb have been slinging my way.

You think arbitrarily demanding my music is some kind of counter-argument ? Or even a reasonable request given your behaviour ?

Obviously not, I don't need to provide a single sine wave to justify my thoughts on the discussions being had here.
Image

Rave
Posts: 6152
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:26 am

Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Rave » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:07 pm

4/4 wrote:Rave, old bean.

All I have done thus far is discuss M4L and pricing policies, whilst diligently ignoring the troll bait you and Neb have been slinging my way.

You think arbitrarily demanding my music is some kind of counter-argument ? Or even a reasonable request given your behaviour ?

Obviously not, I don't need to provide a single sine wave to justify my thoughts on the discussions being had here.
Coward LOL!
PMSL you are the one who cant express himself properly and has to resort to insults LOL, the post history speaks for itself LOL.

Read it and LOL at the no mark that is 4 / 4

LOL

4/4
Posts: 255
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by 4/4 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm

kewl, now you've got that off your chest..

*staying tuned for PLUGGO speak*
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Rave
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Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:26 am

Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Rave » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:15 pm

4/4 wrote:kewl, now you've got that off your chest..

*staying tuned for PLUGGO speak*
LOL coward, i win u fail! LOL

Homebelly
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Contact:

Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Homebelly » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:17 pm

Rave wrote:
4/4 wrote:
I guess you don't own PLUGGO

I guess you don't write / produce music LOL
Why does it always come to this?
Some one runs out of the ability to add to a debate or conversation, or the debate starts to develop into circles and finds it's way back to the start, and all of a sudden people look to justify other peoples value based on their musicle out put???
WTF is that all about???
Rave wrote: LOL coward, i win u fail! LOL
No..
Your a child.
15" 2.4 MBP/Live/Sampler/Operator/ Home made Dumble clone/Two Strats/One Jazz Bass.
Come and visit any time= Soundcloud

steff3
Posts: 330
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by steff3 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:28 am

[quote="4/4"]
Much much more work went into porting max/msp/jitter to ableton live in the first place, porting pluggo would have been a walk in the park after that.
[/quote]
Well, considering the devices itself to me it seems that redoing the interface and setting it up for automation (which was done with pre Max4 techniques in Pluggo) was just boring work that used quite some time.

If you think at the update pricing is fair because you could use that version of Live, well, you could use Pluggo over the last years, so why do you complain. As far as I can see Max4/4.5 owners do not get any discount (do they?) . And Pluggo dates before Max4.5, right?


[quote="4/4"]
Your logic and sense of what is FAIR seems to be all over the place

I guess you don't own PLUGGO[/quote]
My logic of fairness is not clever or sicker than yours ... :) Just always remember that :)

No, I do not own Pluggo and as I said I consider Pluggo in M4L as an incentive/appetizer ... And I guess I should be happy right in this moment that I do not own Pluggo, so I do not feel betrayed although the facts of the deal are not even pointed out. In this situation I just do not have to feel like - 'jeeezzzz, their pricing is not fair, I want my discount ....' ;)

I just do not like synthetic 'moral' discussions .... The moral of doing business :) To me it really feels like you have no other concerns. Email them, ok. But what is the point about coming here and pointing out that you feel like you are not treated fair?

Best

Machinesworking
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Location: Seattle

Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:44 am

@steff3

?????
What's with the 'treated fair' etc routine?? The discussion is on whether or not Pluggo owners will get a decent discount, and whether or not Max/MSP + Pluggo owners will get their due. With every business the rule is get the best price you can without losing customers, it's really pretty simple. Initially a company when faced with a decision like this wants to make people feel good about the purchase. Ableton did fine with Max/MSP, but if they listen to you, someone who doesn't currently own both Pluggo and Max/MSP, then it's OK to not give those people a really good deal. Personally I think that's kind of rude. I own Pluggo, and I'll be OK with any discount at or over $75 off, and I think it's a safe bet to say that it's a great idea to let Ableton know that. THAT, is about where you jumped in and started making points based on what seems like no other interest than disagreeing with people?

Also, have no idea why your quotes are all whack, makes your posts hard to read...

steff3
Posts: 330
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by steff3 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:47 am

Wow, you know, they will not listen to me.

I do not care if Pluggo users get a discount and if Pluggo + Max users get a different discount than Max users. That is a decision Cycling has to come up with. (so this here might be even the wrong forum)

When you are developing something I think there is a limit for a discount - it does not work to go lower and lower. I mean, if they said Max user $150 and Max+Pluggo users $120 this discussion might not exist. Is this a discussion of what is a reasonable price/upgrade or if some people think they need to have this and that because they have such an idea. Most often the dev owes you nothing - you decided to pay for what you got at that point and you were even able to demo it ...

I think your argument about customer satisfaction is an artificial augmentation of the essence of all this, as it is simply about maximizing the personal profit - for you, and on the other side for the developer. That is the simple rule behind this. And to me it seems what drives some here is that people who only have Max got a deal as decent as those who also spend money on Pluggo ....
Personally for me, it is a question to the value I get for the money. And I must say that I think M4L (full) and especially the the offer for Max5 users is very reasonable, not to say it is a steal compared to what you had to pay until now and despite this how this now facilitates things.

My personal point about Pluggo - well, I used the runtime for Tritone and for some custom Max-plugins I did, it always worked like **** ... Pluggo was a gimmick, that's it.

If it was about fair prices, why do Max4 owners not get discounts? And should there not be different discount for people that own Max5, Max/MSP5 or Max/MSP - Jitter 5?

I think there is a limit regarding discounts (where it is just no longer reasonable to give m ore discount without having done work for nothing). I think in the way things are put here this discussion is even pointless.

Anyways, I would wish you and some others here good luck with their endeavor and that they come to the point of a more reasonable view and way to discuss that.

peace

best

smartass303
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by smartass303 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:21 am

raves and 4/4`s bitchfest were more interesting than the rest of this thread.

303

Machinesworking
Posts: 11105
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Location: Seattle

Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:43 pm

steff3 wrote: My personal point about Pluggo - well, I used the runtime for Tritone and for some custom Max-plugins I did, it always worked like **** ... Pluggo was a gimmick, that's it.

OK so since you obviously are unaware of what Pluggo was, maybe that's the problem? Pluggo is over 100 Max/MSP plug ins, developed by Cycling, and mainly free of problems third party vendors had. Some things in Pluggo added more than other VSTs could do, you could route Pluggo plug ins to each other etc. Third party Max/MSP users could develop plug ins, and some had none of the problems Tritone and others had. Some have been staples in my music.
If it was about fair prices, why do Max4 owners not get discounts? And should there not be different discount for people that own Max5, Max/MSP5 or Max/MSP - Jitter 5?
Not sure about Max5, it's almost as expensive to get 1/2 of Max/MSP so most of those people are using it in a way that serves a specific need. Jitter is an add on extra with Max 4 Live, Cycling have said as much, and are uncertain of development within Live etc.
I think there is a limit regarding discounts (where it is just no longer reasonable to give m ore discount without having done work for nothing). I think in the way things are put here this discussion is even pointless.

Anyways, I would wish you and some others here good luck with their endeavor and that they come to the point of a more reasonable view and way to discuss that.
Honestly I think your ESL is showing, and you haven't fully grasped the discussion, which has simply been what we as customers should be asking for, and what to expect. You came in acting like people want things for free, admited to not using Pluggo except the runtime, were unhappy with it, and went on to say that Max + Pluggo users are whining about free stuff and some tangent attempting to debate the issue saying developers need to be paid etc. without really knowing what the discussion was about in the first place.

Machinesworking
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Location: Seattle

Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:43 pm

smartass303 wrote:raves and 4/4`s bitchfest were more interesting than the rest of this thread.

303
Controversy is overrated.

steff3
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:16 am

Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by steff3 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:15 pm

[quote="Machinesworking"]
OK so since you obviously are unaware of what Pluggo was,[/quote]

Of course, my friend, I know what pluggo is, rest assured .... - you have any arguments? Or is this repetitive pattern all in your discussion? Just wondering ....

best

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