Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
4/4
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by 4/4 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:23 am

what about folks who own pluggo & max/msp ?
Super discount extreme!
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Homebelly
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Homebelly » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:59 am

4/4 wrote:what about folks who own pluggo & max/msp ?
Super discount extreme!
Or, you owe us money.... :wink:
15" 2.4 MBP/Live/Sampler/Operator/ Home made Dumble clone/Two Strats/One Jazz Bass.
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Machinesworking
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:08 pm

Word back from Ableton:
The discounts haven't been finalized yet. Please stay tuned until the release of Max for Live on Nov 23rd.
I guess that's that, they want time to judge whether or not to give us a minor price break or a decent one.
No other reason why they couldn't come up with the numbers at the same time they came up with the Max/MSP owners crossgrade cost. :?

Eldon Tyrell
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Eldon Tyrell » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:51 pm

I received a similar M4L PLUGGO discount email response as well: "We haven't defined the exact discounts for Pluggo yet. Please stay tuned till the release of Max for Live on Nov 23rd."

I guess we'll have to "stay tuned". :?

Eldon 8)

4/4
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by 4/4 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:18 pm

Machinesworking wrote:I guess that's that
Eldon Tyrell wrote:I guess we'll have to "stay tuned"
Nope...

I guess it's ample opportunity to let them know exactly what we think a fair & reasonable discount would be. It's bad enough PLUGGO was discontinued in order to give it away as content for a new venture. PLUGGO licensees buying into that venture must be given a proper discount respective of the content included. 50 PLUGGOS = $100

Paying for the same content twice, albeit repackaged, would be tres lame.

I suggest you guys send another email containing your expectations as opposed to a query.



Whatever their ideas are on the discount, I'm sure they won't be able to calculate for sure until they see how much PLUGGO content is going to be included. It seems to be around 50% at the moment. Also, max/msp + PLUGGO owners could potentially get the crossover M4L license for next-to-nothing.
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steff3
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by steff3 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:22 pm

[quote="4/4"]
Also, max/msp + PLUGGO owners could potentially get the crossover M4L license for next-to-nothing.[/quote]

Well, I think the price for Max owners is quite fair ... there was quite some work that went into the 4L-part of M4L and I think no-one likes to work for nothing ....

just my thoughts ...

best

4/4
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by 4/4 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:31 pm

steff3 wrote:
4/4 wrote: Also, max/msp + PLUGGO owners could potentially get the crossover M4L license for next-to-nothing.
Well, I think the price for Max owners is quite fair ... there was quite some work that went into the 4L-part of M4L and I think no-one likes to work for nothing ....

just my thoughts ...

best
Maybe you should organise your thoughts before sharing them.
if you think the Max discount is quite FAIR (as opposed to generous), are you also suggesting PLUGGO owners should get stiffed just because licensees of both products might accumulate a big discount ?

That's bull.



besides, ableton & cycling74 are working closely and could easily compare their databases of licensees and project figures on just how many people own both licenses, and for what versions of LIVE/maxmsp etc.
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Machinesworking
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:34 pm

@4/4
Agreed. Fair and reasonable to me anyway would be $149-199 for Pluggo owners, $49-59 for Max/MSP and Pluggo owners.
So what would translate into a decent amount for them and the least amount of whining on the part of customers would be discounts of $99 Max/MSP, $199 Pluggo, and $49 if you own both Pluggo and Max/MSP.

Of course what I'd like to see is $79 Max/MSP, $135 Pluggo, and $25 if you own both. Especially since it's entirely possible that retail outlets charge $279 or less for Max 4 Live. There's a recession going on and the only way I would buy it out the door right now is if I was rewarded amply for being a loyal Cycling customer.
Worth an email anyway.

Machinesworking
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:43 pm

4/4 wrote: besides, ableton & cycling74 are working closely and could easily compare their databases of licensees and project figures on just how many people own both licenses, and for what versions of LIVE/maxmsp etc.
As well as keeping in mind that a generous discount for owning both Max/MSP and Pluggo would amount to a small concession, considering Pluggo is discontinued. The EULA on Pluggo is retardedly strict, you cannot sell it, or transfer the license, so only actual original owners of Pluggo can get the discount, and that's if they happen to be Live users in the first place, so giving that part of the customer base a generous discount, or even a free cross grade ensures that they get the resulting upgrades, Ableton makes dough and people happy etc.

I only own Pluggo, but do think it's fair to give owners of both a free or almost free cross grade.

mike_o
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by mike_o » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:44 pm

another +1 hoping for a solid $100 - $150 dollar m4l discount to pluggo license holders, please!!!

steff3
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by steff3 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:52 pm

[quote="4/4"]

Maybe you should organise your thoughts before sharing them.
[/quote]

Thanks for your suggestion. However, I think they are quite organised ... :)

It is sad, but in general, you will no get something in return for every cent you spent. As someone with Live 1 can upgrade to live 8 for the same price like one who has Live 6 - although the latter might have paid all the updates inbetween. The same goes for Cubase, Logic, Digital Performer, NI Komplete - everything.

If I would think that I had to get one cent back from something I have spent money on, I think I better had thought about the investment before I did it.

Redoing all the GUIs for pluggo-devices, updating them to current Max standard (like preset system and automation) ... lots of work that Pluggo owners did not pay for until now ;)

best

Machinesworking
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:08 pm

steff3 wrote: Thanks for your suggestion. However, I think they are quite organised ... :)
Not to step into someone else's pissing match, but from a purely A+B=C standpoint, 4/4 was talking about owners of both Max/MSP and Pluggo, not owners of Max like you talked about in your first reply, or owners of Pluggo like in your rebuttal, but both, who it stands to reason should get Max 4 Live for next to nothing.
Like you mentioned, upgrade paths cost dough, and companies smart enough to hook people onto that path rake in the bucks. Look at the Suite upgrade price at $249 for instance. What do you suppose it will cost a Suite owner who also owns Max 4 Live when both products are upgraded simultaneously? which is bound to happen considering M4L is dependent on Live. A generous discount now pays off in the end.

Homebelly
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Homebelly » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:09 pm

My feeling is there has to be a discount for Pluggo/live owners.
I would even suggest they are probably legally bound to offer a discount as they have announced one.
I only own a license for pluggo and Live, not MAX/Msp.
But even if i did own both i'm not sure i would expect to get a dual discount.
I think the discount offered for the live to M4L or the Max to M4L deal is fair.
All i would like to see is another option that adds pluggo/Live owners a discount to M4L that is 50% to 60%
off of the max and live deals.
and then an option below that if you are a pluggo VST/AU owner that does not own Live but wants to come over and join the fun.
Maybe 25% discount....?????
How ever it works out, and i'm sure it will, i think its probably to much to expect that if you have licenses for both pluggo and Max that you can combine your discount options and get M4L for next to nothing. It would be very nice if you could, but realistically i think thats just crazy thinking...
15" 2.4 MBP/Live/Sampler/Operator/ Home made Dumble clone/Two Strats/One Jazz Bass.
Come and visit any time= Soundcloud

Machinesworking
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:35 pm

Homebelly wrote: How ever it works out, and i'm sure it will, i think its probably to much to expect that if you have licenses for both pluggo and Max that you can combine your discount options and get M4L for next to nothing. It would be very nice if you could, but realistically i think thats just crazy thinking...
Why? it's now worthless to build VSTs for other hosts in Max, and Pluggo is dead, discontinued. The only option for integrated hosting of Max is Live now, that wasn't a decision that involved the customer at all, and in appreciation of loyal Cycling 74 owners of both products it makes sense to offer owners of both products a better discount. Again, future upgrades would more than make up for the initial generosity.

4/4
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Re: Max For Live Pluggo discount?

Post by 4/4 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:39 pm

steff3 wrote:
4/4 wrote:
Maybe you should organise your thoughts before sharing them.
It is sad, but in general, you will no get something in return for every cent you spent. As someone with Live 1 can upgrade to live 8 for the same price like one who has Live 6 - although the latter might have paid all the updates inbetween. The same goes for Cubase, Logic, Digital Performer, NI Komplete - everything.
That's a fairly glib leap in logic. People who upgrade from 1 > 2 > 3 > and so on have had the USE of all those versions. It makes perfect sense that someone going from 1 > 8 will pay the same or a similar upgrade price as 7 > 8
steff3 wrote: Redoing all the GUIs for pluggo-devices, updating them to current Max standard (like preset system and automation) ... lots of work that Pluggo owners did not pay for until now ;)
Much much more work went into porting max/msp/jitter to ableton live in the first place, porting pluggo would have been a walk in the park after that. you said the discount for Max owners was quite fair, which at $99 is a discount of 66% on $300. Which in itself is a huge discount on the cost of max/msp/jitter at $700.

So, for some reason, you're electing PLUGGO licensees to eat humble pie for expecting a realistic discount on content they've already paid for ? Which was discontinued purely to repackage it into another venture ?

The discounts for maxmsp AND PLUGGO owners should accumulate like so 1+1=2, and PLUGGO owners deserve a fair discount.

Your logic and sense of what is FAIR seems to be all over the place

I guess you don't own PLUGGO
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