Endless Possibilities or What?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Growtg
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:27 pm

Endless Possibilities or What?

Post by Growtg » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:20 pm

Yeah it's just like it sounds! :cry:
Maybe the title sounds kind of wrong or something is not right here...but still this is a problem. :!:

I will have to ask or even "beg" for help...this is a hard one!!!
All i ask, is that you understand.
And please help me out with tips or personal experience or something like that!!!


Well the main problem is the creativeness and it's endless limits and stretched out possibilities.
Yeah i'm talking about the music making world!
It's really awesome , amazing , big , long-lasting pleasure etc BUT!
It's like an ocean...it's full of fish and water but you can drown very easily. :arrow:

Today i was making some music + tried to finish some of the sketches...but unfortunately like always , I end up doing almost nothing. :?:

The problem is that i like to criticise myself!
I know it's not bad...there has to be something like this , because without it...you'll be making crap all the way.
But my criticism is one of the main problems.
For an example : I sit down to make music...it takes some hours...from 1-8 hours...
I love this process...the making is really creative and it's fun...
Well , after that period of time i have made something that sounds good...something that i like.
Then the next day when i come to make something more i usually listen to the old stuff and when i listen to it...it's like "WHO MADE THIS PIECE OF S**T?"
It's not always like that...sometimes i like the stuff...but mostly i hate it...
That's my first problem.
And the other one is that...when i make something spontaneously...my friends love it...
They really DO , but i DON'T!
Because when making something spontaneously i can't control the process and when i listen to it...the first thing comes to my mind...is : DID A CHILD MAKE IT?
But my friends love it...and it's really hard to make my final decision that the song is complete...when i think that it sucks...but others love it...it's like letting something really bad go...and i don't want that to happen...so it's a dilemma.
And another problem is that i can't finish songs...i always want them to be better.
I tweak them like forever...this doesn't end...and that's really bad... :!:
Also this endless tweaking has positive sides , and they are :
I can make a lot of sounds...A LOT with one sample...or if i have a song i can make unlimited versions of it. But i end up stuck in it...that i can't choose or decide...


But if we look at stuff the other way...
I have listened to some songs without the vocals...just instrumental stuff...and a lot of songs...mostly all...sound really lame and unprofessional...
Maybe the vocals give the song...the real vibe and the feeling...
I don't know...but it is like that.
Many instrumental songs sound awesome , but i'm guessing you have to really know how to make it sound awesome without one of the most used instrument = vocals!

Because when making music i want to make something special and awesome...something different...with adding some special stuff...something unique...but i can't!!!
Because i have these limits that i can't cross or i'm not sure where or how to cross them...
It's really hard to explain because it's complicated.
It's something like this : if i want to make trip hop or any other type of music style.
Every genre has it's own specific stuff...that it has and without that stuff it's something else.
So the process begins...i am making trip hop...but when adding some of my own stuff...something unique...
The music begins to blur :mrgreen:
And this is not just about trip hop , this was just an example.
It happens to everything!
I start adding a lot of stuff and in the end it's not like trip hop , it's more like some electronica or something like that.
I have this problem of over-doing stuff...but this was turned-on only for good reasons to be more professional and look where it's gotten me now?
I can't handle the process...
Maybe i don't have much of experience!


I will really appreciate some help 8O :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

GrooveNinja
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Re: Endless Possibilities or What?

Post by GrooveNinja » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:16 pm

Quite a few things come to mind regarding this topic. You need to learn what is good enough. Accept that nothing will ever be perfect, and that it is more important to finish something. I'm not suggesting that you put out crap, but you need to learn to see the good aspects as well as the flaws. You will also find that most people are their own worst critics. Besides, most other people will never notice the flaws.

I was reading a book on composition, and it stated that all melody is derived from the capabilities of the human voice. Vocal-like melodies that can be sung, even if they aren't, just sound better to us.

Finally, does it really matter if your music can be classified and categorized as a particular genre? Do you really care? Or is it more of an expression of your individual self? If it develops into something else, so what?

starving student
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Re: Endless Possibilities or What?

Post by starving student » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:54 am

imho freeing yourself up a bit might help alot.
there is no reason to write music for only one reason, why not multiple reasons and why not accept that the reason you write for your friends is different than the reason you write for yourself as well as another reason why you write for the public, so on and so on.
sometimes I write music for plants only and if my friends happen to like I let them know hey this is for my plants.

secondly free yourself up to allow the addition of the words 'right now' to the end of sentences that you currently end with the word finished, this will allow you to distribute whatever you've finished at the time but give you the freedom to continue to work on the song for the next completion.

thirdly why not allow yourself to be catagorized by others, that way you could spend that time working on music instead, which the process is what you said that you really enjoy so you keep writing and let others take care of the catagorization for you, and you'd be suprised how helpful other people can be in this regard.


if you're not happy with your current skill level but are not sure what to do about it the best thing to do is just document it. go about your day as usual and don't worry about your music problems, when you run into an issue which will usually come while you are listening to something don't focus on fixing it just focus on documenting it, make it simple as possible, only write down what it is that you don't like at that moment, how the kick sounds, the bass wasn't funky enough, whatever it maybe, only write down what it is at the moment in the most simple terms that you can. do this over and over whenever something comes up and later you'll have a roadmap of things that you might need to improve upon for that paticular track or maybe even for yourself in general if the same things keep
coming up you will have already documented the pattern and see where to go from there.

lastly, stop making trip-hop. :mrgreen:

Emissary
Posts: 2431
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Re: Endless Possibilities or What?

Post by Emissary » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:20 am

I find having multiple names to work under helps, i write under about 6 different names, all using a different technique to limit myself. I found after a few years of working under one name i started comparing myself to myself and wondering what myself would do...which sent me mad........COCKLES!

Ball Sack
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Re: Endless Possibilities or What?

Post by Ball Sack » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:26 am

Emissary wrote:I find having multiple names to work under helps, i write under about 6 different names, all using a different technique to limit myself. I found after a few years of working under one name i started comparing myself to myself and wondering what myself would do...which sent me mad........COCKLES!
Exactly , ridiculous.

oddstep
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Re: Endless Possibilities or What?

Post by oddstep » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:43 am

I find that my own music sounds better after I haven't heard it for a while. The whole production process is all about microscopically analysing performance and making the raw material communicate a feeling/set of ideas as well as it can... which is no way to enjoy listening to music. Deadlines are good for this - if you have to finish something within two weeks or it won't be used.. well, that sets an absolute limit on how much time you spend on disliking your music. When I hear music with a few months distance I've tended to have moved on a bit - so I can hear the music more as a listener.
I've also noticed that if I try and make genre music it generally sounds weaker than music where I am exploring my own performance style and sets of ideas- except for those genres that I am naturally part of... in which case I don't have to add in specific elements because I am instinctively using certain techniques and practices.
I suppose I believe music making is about getting as much mileage as possible from being yourself.

crumhorn
Posts: 2503
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Re: Endless Possibilities or What?

Post by crumhorn » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:37 am

GrooveNinja wrote:... You need to learn what is good enough. Accept that nothing will ever be perfect, and that it is more important to finish something ...
+1 I need to get this on a wall poster.
GrooveNinja wrote:... Finally, does it really matter if your music can be classified and categorized as a particular genre? Do you really care? Or is it more of an expression of your individual self? If it develops into something else, so what? ...
+2
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

Grappadura
Posts: 2119
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:57 pm

Re: Endless Possibilities or What?

Post by Grappadura » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:28 pm

sounds like it would be good to limit yourself, and also, to play live like an instrument. Also, build kits of the sounds you like, and keep coming back to them, expanding them and reconfiguring them.

You know that you can drag and drop any track of every set into the current set? Take one of the sounds that your friends liked and put it in a different context, and do that again and again and again, while playing it all live, and you´ll get a better feeling for your own tunes. On a sidenote, of course it doesnt really matter what your friends like, I think you should rather totally disregard that.

Growtg
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:27 pm

Re: Endless Possibilities or What?

Post by Growtg » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:42 pm

GrooveNinja wrote:Quite a few things come to mind regarding this topic. You need to learn what is good enough. Accept that nothing will ever be perfect, and that it is more important to finish something. I'm not suggesting that you put out crap, but you need to learn to see the good aspects as well as the flaws. You will also find that most people are their own worst critics. Besides, most other people will never notice the flaws.

I was reading a book on composition, and it stated that all melody is derived from the capabilities of the human voice. Vocal-like melodies that can be sung, even if they aren't, just sound better to us.

Finally, does it really matter if your music can be classified and categorized as a particular genre? Do you really care? Or is it more of an expression of your individual self? If it develops into something else, so what?
Well it's hard to learn what is good enough...because for someone it's good enough and for someone else it's not enough.
It's really sad that nothing will be perfect...i always want things to be perfect... :mrgreen:
Maybe that's to blame.
The flaws...hmm...i know that most people won't notice them , but this is a matter of my system.
Like if i make a track and it sounds good , but it has flaws...i really can't make it final...because those flaws are like asking to manage them...and in this case i just can't say that the song is finished and let others have a look at it...because i will always know those flaws and they will haunt me till the day i finish them...i hope you understand what i'm saying.
It's really awesome if my music develops into something else...that's really great but in some cases i really need just a solid genre of music and nothing more...so...yeah


starving student wrote:imho freeing yourself up a bit might help alot.
there is no reason to write music for only one reason, why not multiple reasons and why not accept that the reason you write for your friends is different than the reason you write for yourself as well as another reason why you write for the public, so on and so on.
sometimes I write music for plants only and if my friends happen to like I let them know hey this is for my plants.

secondly free yourself up to allow the addition of the words 'right now' to the end of sentences that you currently end with the word finished, this will allow you to distribute whatever you've finished at the time but give you the freedom to continue to work on the song for the next completion.

thirdly why not allow yourself to be catagorized by others, that way you could spend that time working on music instead, which the process is what you said that you really enjoy so you keep writing and let others take care of the catagorization for you, and you'd be suprised how helpful other people can be in this regard.


if you're not happy with your current skill level but are not sure what to do about it the best thing to do is just document it. go about your day as usual and don't worry about your music problems, when you run into an issue which will usually come while you are listening to something don't focus on fixing it just focus on documenting it, make it simple as possible, only write down what it is that you don't like at that moment, how the kick sounds, the bass wasn't funky enough, whatever it maybe, only write down what it is at the moment in the most simple terms that you can. do this over and over whenever something comes up and later you'll have a roadmap of things that you might need to improve upon for that paticular track or maybe even for yourself in general if the same things keep
coming up you will have already documented the pattern and see where to go from there.

lastly, stop making trip-hop. :mrgreen:

Emm...catagorized by others...really interesting but it feels like going in blind...
Because as we all know...that people have different and very different taste in everything...so to please everyone will be just hard and kind of impossible.
Because some like hard , some like mellow , some like melodic , some like harsh and brutal...you know what i mean.

Thank you about the documenting tip. That might really work and it sounds really helpful!!! :mrgreen:


Emissary wrote:I find having multiple names to work under helps, i write under about 6 different names, all using a different technique to limit myself. I found after a few years of working under one name i started comparing myself to myself and wondering what myself would do...which sent me mad........COCKLES!

Now you're talking...something very very very familiar!!!
I have to agree with this ALSO!!! Because this smart human-cyborg has good tactics!
Multiple names might and i'm sure will give the workflow a good feeling and change a lot of things.


oddstep wrote:I find that my own music sounds better after I haven't heard it for a while. The whole production process is all about microscopically analysing performance and making the raw material communicate a feeling/set of ideas as well as it can... which is no way to enjoy listening to music. Deadlines are good for this - if you have to finish something within two weeks or it won't be used.. well, that sets an absolute limit on how much time you spend on disliking your music. When I hear music with a few months distance I've tended to have moved on a bit - so I can hear the music more as a listener.
I've also noticed that if I try and make genre music it generally sounds weaker than music where I am exploring my own performance style and sets of ideas- except for those genres that I am naturally part of... in which case I don't have to add in specific elements because I am instinctively using certain techniques and practices.
I suppose I believe music making is about getting as much mileage as possible from being yourself.

Deadlines , deadlines , deadlines...this is something i have discovered too.
My friend had some art projects going on...and he asked for music...i told him that i will try.
So he gave me a deadline and the deadline was in front of my face everyday...and that was helping with the process...like helping a lot!
But in the end the song was like i've said before...nothing special...but PEOPLE F*****G LOVED IT...
I was shocked that day and still am... :|
Being yourself in music...agreed!

Grappadura wrote:sounds like it would be good to limit yourself, and also, to play live like an instrument. Also, build kits of the sounds you like, and keep coming back to them, expanding them and reconfiguring them.

You know that you can drag and drop any track of every set into the current set? Take one of the sounds that your friends liked and put it in a different context, and do that again and again and again, while playing it all live, and you´ll get a better feeling for your own tunes. On a sidenote, of course it doesnt really matter what your friends like, I think you should rather totally disregard that.

I play guitar...for about 6 years now...but i'm not a professional...i just play it for fun.
And mostly i experiment...i use a lot of other stuff on my guitar...to make it sound more different than it really is...sometimes i end up even hitting it...to produce some sounds!!! :mrgreen:

And i want to play piano and synthesizers and analog synthesizers but all of that costs a lot of money...and i don't have that much. And i need space to put that all somewhere , which happens to be a problem too. :cry:

I really want to start making music with real instruments (hardware) , because in some way i'm sick of computer music...using vst's and loops...i want a big machine with keys and eyes and all of that stuff...
Something to really work with!!!

Grappadura
Posts: 2119
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:57 pm

Re: Endless Possibilities or What?

Post by Grappadura » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:44 pm

get a launchpad!

GrooveNinja
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Re: Endless Possibilities or What?

Post by GrooveNinja » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:21 pm

Growtg wrote: Well it's hard to learn what is good enough...because for someone it's good enough and for someone else it's not enough.
You need to find objective criteria. For example, if a flaw is not noticeable under a majority of real listening conditions, then its probably not worth too much fuss. The spill you hear on a tom track, for example, my be buried in the mix and thereby undetectable. The same goes for that fret buzz, or whatever.
Growtg wrote: It's really sad that nothing will be perfect...i always want things to be perfect... :mrgreen:
Maybe that's to blame.
If you don't produce anything, then you certainly haven't produced perfection.
Growtg wrote: The flaws...hmm...i know that most people won't notice them , but this is a matter of my system.
Like if i make a track and it sounds good , but it has flaws...i really can't make it final...because those flaws are like asking to manage them...and in this case i just can't say that the song is finished and let others have a look at it...because i will always know those flaws and they will haunt me till the day i finish them...i hope you understand what i'm saying.
If they are really noticeable, fix them. If you have to try really hard to notice them, fix them later, or just forget about them.
Growtg wrote: It's really awesome if my music develops into something else...that's really great but in some cases i really need just a solid genre of music and nothing more...so...yeah
Why? It seems that your genres are too specific, anyway. I recently read the Dance Music Manual, and I thought that it was a bit odd that someone would set out to make a whatever song, so they would use certain synth sounds and effects and so forth. I don't think that those kinds of restrictions lead to creativity. I think that restrictions can help creativity, but those restrictions should be musical in nature, such as using a row or a polyrhythm, and not technical like a certain synth.
Growtg wrote: Deadlines , deadlines , deadlines...this is something i have discovered too.
My friend had some art projects going on...and he asked for music...i told him that i will try.
So he gave me a deadline and the deadline was in front of my face everyday...and that was helping with the process...like helping a lot!
That demonstrates the importance of finishing something!
Growtg wrote: But in the end the song was like i've said before...nothing special...but PEOPLE F*****G LOVED IT...
But you obviously accomplished your objective, because your audience loved it. You made a satisfied customer. Be contented with your successful mission! By the way, that is a good example of good enough.

necho
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Re: Endless Possibilities or What?

Post by necho » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:30 pm

Emissary wrote:I find having multiple names to work under helps, i write under about 6 different names, all using a different technique to limit myself. I found after a few years of working under one name i started comparing myself to myself and wondering what myself would do...which sent me mad........COCKLES!
+100000

I have multiple alter-egos:

I make "serious" cinematic downtempo glitch; nutty eclectic mashup hardcore/idm, dubtech, and in collaboration: psychedelic progressive electro rock, laid back dubstep and I co-produce/engineer other people's pop/rock songs.

All under different names.

Splitting my music into multiple projects is one of the best things I ever did... Unless I was a proper genre-whore DJ type, this is the only way I can imagine making music.
_________
sigs suck.

gjm
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Re: Endless Possibilities or What?

Post by gjm » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:51 pm

Lower your expectations. I find this always helps me achieve my success criteria.
Don't take yourself so seriously. Most people don't anyway, why should you?
Stop making excuses. What you got is what you got. Now get on with it.
Most people don't give a shit about what YOU think about your music. They either like it or they don't. Thats the point.
iMac - 10.10.3 - Live 9 Suite - APC40 - Axiom 61 - TX81z - Firestudio Mobile - Focal Alpha 80's - Godin Session - Home made foot controller

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