Max for Live - first impressions?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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The Northern Contingent
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Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by The Northern Contingent » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:10 am

What does everyone think of the beta Max for Live so far? I think it has great potential, but at its current price I don't think I'll be getting it any time soon.

For me, it is getting too deep into the programming side of things. I'd rather be making music. That said, I can appreciate that for those who want to get more into this aspect of music production, it is brilliant, and certainly offers something no other DAW is doing at the moment.

My argument is this - I think there will be two levels of users with Max, one of which (myself included) unfortunately wouldn't be using the full functionality of the software.

I think what might be a better idea is having a discounted version of the Max plugin for users who don't want to get as deep as the development of new plugins, but would like to be able to use pre-made ones. Something like what Acrobat Reader is to the full version of Acrobat. I would definitely be up for something like that. As it stands, I feel like I would be shelling out a whack on money for functionality I would never use. The main thing that appeals to me about Max so far, for example, is the fact that Ableton now has a dedicated step sequencer. But I don't really want to pay almost £240 for it!!

Ableton currently have different 'tiers' of their main software for different levels of users - this could use exactly the same marketing structure. What do you think?

sigabort
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by sigabort » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:20 am

i think that sounds like a a great idea, and i guess that there will be alot of $$$ earnt from people that wouldn't otherwise purchase the product so wouldn't be surprised to see something like that happening

aeon_flux
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by aeon_flux » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:43 am

i'm rather looking for m4l runtime that allow me use creations of other people.

twisted-space
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by twisted-space » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:47 am

This is what I think of it......

Image

Emissary
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by Emissary » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:48 am

A runtime would be great for around £70 or less. I guess it would be leeching in many regards, but perhaps make the creations creative commons licensed so we have to put thanks in our album/single covers/info files to the creator of any device we use?

The Northern Contingent
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by The Northern Contingent » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:58 am

Absolutely - credit where credit is due to the creators of any effects/instruments etc that you might use. And I think around £70 would be a fair price to pay for such a plugin. What do the guys and gals at Ableton think?

@ twisted-space - I think it might be time to get a 'Mac for Live' instead! :wink:

The Northern Contingent
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by The Northern Contingent » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:12 pm

Rave wrote:I have said this from the beginning - they should have a cheap run time plugin and an app store where authors can sell or distribute their creations
Now an app store is a really great idea. That way creators are compensated for their work in the same way any other producer would be.

davide37
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by davide37 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:27 pm

These suggestions echo my thoughts exactly. I couldn't justify buying the full version of M4L as I know I'll never dig deep enough into the programming. A M4LLite for £50 or less sounds much more enticing. I suppose another option would be a 'group buy' but that's not really an Ableton way of doing things. I like the idea of a M4L app store, too.

Regards,
David
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artworks
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by artworks » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:46 pm

M4L: Too expensive.

Per Boysen
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by Per Boysen » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:06 pm

Since I'm a longtime owner of Cycling74's Pluggo (recently discontinued in favor of M4L) I'm awaiting word on the promised "Pluggo owner M4L discount" mentioned in Cycling74 interviews. I would like to use M4L to build this live performance instrument: http://www.perboysen.com/archives/161
Last edited by Per Boysen on Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
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mech
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by mech » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:37 pm

To be fair, Ableton may not exactly have much wiggle room in the pricing.

Remember, Max itself is the intellectual property of Cycling74, and there are a lot of people who have paid them top dollar for Max/MSP.

Imagine how many pissed-off Max users there are going to be if Ableton is suddenly offering the same programming functionality for a fraction of the priced they've already paid previously. I'd think there would have to be some sort of reciprocal agreement (Ableton users get a cheap upgrade to Max? Well then, Max users get a cheap copy of Live) and I don't believe either company is really going to get behind that.

Would like to see a runtime stack, though... :roll:

--m.
"I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's" --William Blake
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Macbook Core2Duo 2Ghz/OSX 10.4/Live 8/Reaktor 5/Echo Audiofire/Roland VG-99

The Northern Contingent
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by The Northern Contingent » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:46 pm

mech wrote:To be fair, Ableton may not exactly have much wiggle room in the pricing.

Remember, Max itself is the intellectual property of Cycling74, and there are a lot of people who have paid them top dollar for Max/MSP.

Imagine how many pissed-off Max users there are going to be if Ableton is suddenly offering the same programming functionality for a fraction of the priced they've already paid previously. I'd think there would have to be some sort of reciprocal agreement (Ableton users get a cheap upgrade to Max? Well then, Max users get a cheap copy of Live) and I don't believe either company is really going to get behind that.

Would like to see a runtime stack, though... :roll:

--m.
Not necessarily. Offering an 'Acrobat Reader' style plugin at a cheaper discount alongside an 'XL' version would make great business sense to both Ableton and Max. Its discounted price is justified by the fact that it precisely doesn't offer the same programming functionality of Max. Users would only have a 'read-only' access to it. But it would have the added bonus of exposing more users to MSP and Max in general, thereby raising their profile in what is already a fiercely competitive marketplace. Added to this the idea of an 'App Store' style shop where users can download other developers instruments and effects for a fee and I can't see where either company (or indeed the user) could loose out.

Per Boysen
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by Per Boysen » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:52 pm

Spot on, The Northern Contingent! :D
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
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gp23
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by gp23 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:59 pm

It's actually reasonably priced - in dollars. If you have to pay in € you're charged significantly more for the privilege. So I'll wait for a special offer once you've all ironed the bugs out.

A runtime version is a good idea, if it was super cheap with an upgrade path to the full version. An 'app store' is a terrible idea. What happened to the idea of sharing?

Aside from all this, I just hope that M4L doesn't mean an end to solid development of Live itself, with the best new innovative devices and features being exclusive to M4L.

The Northern Contingent
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by The Northern Contingent » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:06 pm

gp23 wrote:An 'app store' is a terrible idea. What happened to the idea of sharing?
Look at the Apple App Store - not all apps are charged. Some might be offered for free, whilst others could be offered as a 'lite' version of more fully functional 'apps' that users could upgrade to. Special offers, seasonal discounts...

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