Max for Live - first impressions?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
synnack
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by synnack » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:37 am

4/4 wrote:I'm sorry tempus3r. I was just posting flame bait and trolling. I just get so upset when Neb and Tone Deft fight.
No problem man. We all make mistakes. Have a good night.
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4/4
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by 4/4 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:39 am

No really, I have been 100% genuine in my opinions. I'm just fed up talking about it for the day, I will address your post tomorrow. Seriously, I do have a dookie baking in my bowels.
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Eloheim
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by Eloheim » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:58 am

First there was archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria.


Then there was the advent of Max4Live.


May god have mercy on our souls. :P

arachnaut
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by arachnaut » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:22 am

And I thought I had a bad first impression.

The Northern Contingent
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by The Northern Contingent » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:35 am

Erm...seems like I opened a can of worms here that I wasn't aware about. Obviously a couple of users have some personal issues with each other - hope you can sort this out between you both.

Getting back to the original point, it seems as though there is a split in opinion between a free/discounted runtime being offered and Max for Live already offering excellent value for money. I think what I'm most concerned about is suddenly not having a basic thing like a dedicated Ableton sequencer now Max has appeared, unless I pay for the whole Max package. My argument isn't that Max for Live is bad value for money (anything but in fact, judging from the reviews I've read elsewhere), but that the users who just want something like a step sequencer in Live could now be forced to pay a whack of money for a tool they are not going to really use.

Do you think this could happen? Now Ableton has a step sequencer in Max, that they won't develop a standalone one for users who don't want to buy into this huge package?

synnack
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by synnack » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:54 pm

The Northern Contingent wrote:Erm...seems like I opened a can of worms here that I wasn't aware about. Obviously a couple of users have some personal issues with each other - hope you can sort this out between you both.

Getting back to the original point, it seems as though there is a split in opinion between a free/discounted runtime being offered and Max for Live already offering excellent value for money. I think what I'm most concerned about is suddenly not having a basic thing like a dedicated Ableton sequencer now Max has appeared, unless I pay for the whole Max package. My argument isn't that Max for Live is bad value for money (anything but in fact, judging from the reviews I've read elsewhere), but that the users who just want something like a step sequencer in Live could now be forced to pay a whack of money for a tool they are not going to really use.

Do you think this could happen? Now Ableton has a step sequencer in Max, that they won't develop a standalone one for users who don't want to buy into this huge package?
There is a big fear in the Ableton community that the default answer for every feature request will be "just use Max for Live" but I think it is largely unfounded.

I can't speak for Ableton but based on what I have seen in dealing with them for years is that they absolutely understand the need for Ableton Live itself to provide needed functionality core to the product. To help them decide what that base functionality is (if you believe it's a step sequencer) join us on the feature request forum.
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andrewbrewer
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by andrewbrewer » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:49 pm

whar are teh first impresshuns ?

Tone Deft
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by Tone Deft » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:08 am

andrewbrewer wrote:whar are teh first impresshuns ?
I'm happy with it.

the downside is that there aren't patches to hook in directly to a Live instrument like Operator. it really is just putting max/msp/jitter inside Live. the Live patches are for making GUIs that live in clip view.

patches automap just fine to my APC.

the preset content is pretty damn well done. the patches were definitely made by people that know what they're doing. I shouldn't be surprised but I'm used to seeing stuff made by hobbyists, not C74 employees. a lot can be learned by dissecting those patches.

Preview Mode is great, it lets you pull the patch apart and play with the knobs and whatnots to see how the thing works. this would let you tack on a print box to see what an object is doing.


so, it's not this crazy tool to rewrite Live people have talked about but it is max/msp/jitter bundled inside Live which is GREAT, it was a pain in the ass at time to coordinate max and Live.

[speculation]
I imagine more patches will be released in the future. there are also Live API geeks that could maybe develop hooks into things like Operator.
[/speculation]

I'm just glad the thing was finally released, almost 3 (was it 3?!?!) years of tension has been released.
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LOFA
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by LOFA » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:15 am

Tone Deft wrote:
andrewbrewer wrote:whar are teh first impresshuns ?
I'm happy with it.

the downside is that there aren't patches to hook in directly to a Live instrument like Operator. it really is just putting max/msp/jitter inside Live. the Live patches are for making GUIs that live in clip view.

patches automap just fine to my APC.

the preset content is pretty damn well done. the patches were definitely made by people that know what they're doing. I shouldn't be surprised but I'm used to seeing stuff made by hobbyists, not C74 employees. a lot can be learned by dissecting those patches.

Preview Mode is great, it lets you pull the patch apart and play with the knobs and whatnots to see how the thing works. this would let you tack on a print box to see what an object is doing.


so, it's not this crazy tool to rewrite Live people have talked about but it is max/msp/jitter bundled inside Live which is GREAT, it was a pain in the ass at time to coordinate max and Live.

[speculation]
I imagine more patches will be released in the future. there are also Live API geeks that could maybe develop hooks into things like Operator.
[/speculation]

I'm just glad the thing was finally released, almost 3 (was it 3?!?!) years of tension has been released.
I completely agree with everything you said here.

Slightlydelic
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by Slightlydelic » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:50 am

I still dont think i would ever need it.

Illiac
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by Illiac » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:29 am

I just want to chime in on this...

When all of the these new advancements were announced at the beginning of the year, I was completely floored. I had bought max 4.6 standalone a year or so ago with good intentions but could never seem to muster up the discipline to buckle down and learn it. Since then, I was lucky enough to beta test MFl in one of the rounds but the documentation and example patches were still quite sparse. Since the public beta was released, I have been completely inthralled with the possibilities. The lessons have been wonderful, the familiarity of the Live environment really helped with the overwhelming-ness of it all and I'm finally starting to get it. It's incredibly exciting. I also snagged an apc40 about a month ago and the thrill quickly wore off due to the total lack of functionality. I've since gotten monomulator up and running and am so excited by the potential of it finally becoming a true instrument.

MFl is an enormous undertaking and cycling and Ableton both deserve huge props for making this happen. This is only a positive thing that we'll all benefit from in some way or another. Just give it some time...

Eloheim
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by Eloheim » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:12 am

Illiac wrote:I also snagged an apc40 about a month ago and the thrill quickly wore off due to the total lack of functionality. I've since gotten monomulator up and running and am so excited by the potential of it finally becoming a true instrument.
Can you explain this please (the APC's "total lack of functionality")? And what you think Max will do to expand/fix your problems with it?

And I'm asking 100% genuinely interested in your answer (ie. I'm in now way being sarcastic or argumentative like so often is the case).

Illiac
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by Illiac » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:44 am

well, it's a static, un-editable, proprietary controller with tons and tons of unrealized tactical potential. the automapping is great but there's been a lot of implication as to what would come of it in the future.

Maybe hop over to the monome forums and read up on some of the amazing apps that have been written for it (most in max/msp, most portable to mfl). the apc40 is capable of supporting thos apps as well as adding all of the other controls it has. there's a step sequencer object in the mfl lessons you should check out for starters that's made to integrate with the apc40 and launchpad (check the threads over in the mfl forum).

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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by stefan-tiedje » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:44 pm

Per Boysen wrote:Since I'm a longtime owner of Cycling74's Pluggo (recently discontinued in favor of M4L) I'm awaiting word on the promised "Pluggo owner M4L discount" mentioned in Cycling74 interviews. I would like to use M4L to build this live performance instrument: http://www.perboysen.com/archives/161
I almost started to do it, its sitting here on my todo list since you first published it. In the meantime I created all sort of different toys though...;-)

Basically I don't know yet how to implement this within a Live context. Each sampler probably should sit in its own track, unfortunately there is no such thing as a mixed Midi/Audio track. But I made already a MidiSend device, which could route Midi from a Midi track to the sampler device, which then has to be an audio device for the recording process...
The other option would be to simply throw clip references into simpler somehow... - thinking loud..... - ...

Push me a bit and I'll get it done...;-)

Stefan
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crumhorn
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Re: Max for Live - first impressions?

Post by crumhorn » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:01 pm

The geek part of me wants this badly, but I already have enough toys in Live 8 Suite to keep me occupied for several years.
and unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view) my overdraft won't stand it.

I'll watch and wait for now, see how things go. Obviously if a lot of good patches become available that offer something new and useful, and the forum is full of talk of how wonderful it all is, then it will be difficult to resist.

I'm hoping for some kind of bundle deal when Live 9 Suite comes out, but I am an optimist.

As for M4L collaboration and patch swapping, surely Ableton's "Share" service will dominate the scene once they get it out of beta.
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