Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

Would you like an app store for M4L?

 
Total votes: 0

Illiac
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by Illiac » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:58 pm

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How bout you just donate when you like someone"s patch?

4/4
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by 4/4 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:59 pm

Rave wrote:
4/4 wrote:*shrug*

I guess you can't handle dealing with the facts.

I guess you cant read LOL and you haven't answered my question
Oh man, give the pedantry a rest

You were inferring something with your question, to that I most certainly did provide an answer which you sidestepped with a LOL.

:roll:
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steff3
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by steff3 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:00 pm

[quote="Rave"]Apple run a successful app store for the iphone applications. It is a neat central point where users can download a shit load of FREE and paid apps.
I think M4L could benefit from a similar scheme and maybe get Ableton to produce a cheaper runtime of M4L for those of us who don't want to program.


edit: cant people read the first post. The apps can be free too[/quote]

How does it make sense on an open system like Live and M4L? I mean, Live is an open system and M4L as well, as it is currently not possible to protect M4LDevices .... Other than a donate thing does not make sense IMHO.

With iPhone, theoretically, it is a sandbox, where you can only install stuff over the store ... that is logical concept ....

IMHO an app-store does not make sense at the current point.

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stringtapper
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by stringtapper » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:00 pm

If you don't want to create devices then Max for Live is simply not for you.

The Edit Button is what it's all about. If you want to make it about having new toys to play with then you have to pony up and just ignore the Edit Button. No one owes you the privilege of getting to play with new toys via a free runtime M4L.

Rave the main point you're missing in all of this is that no one is going to sell M4L devices when Ableton/Cycling '74 have not implemented a way to protect those devices (e.g. locked devices with no Edit Button).

If you just want a forum where devices can be shared freely, that already exists. You want an official one? Sure, sounds like a good idea.
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Tone Deft
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:01 pm

Rave, yes I've read this idea from you for a few days, you've always mentioned that apps can be free.

what you haven't stated is what Ableton could do better than he could. AFAIK he's eager and ready. why the cock block? ;)

donationware is a good one. it seems tempus3r can tailor his site however people want. Ableton are pretty cool about listening to users, but probably not as flexible as tempus3r.


funny... I keep trying to submit this but new replies keep popping up. Rave you've created a monster!!!!
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by citizenchris099 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:05 pm

4/4 wrote:
Rave wrote:
4/4 wrote:*shrug*

I guess you can't handle dealing with the facts.

I guess you cant read LOL and you haven't answered my question
Oh man, give the pedantry a rest

You were inferring something with your question, to that I most certainly did provide an answer which you sidestepped with a LOL.

:roll:
I seriously don't get why you're so defensive 4/4. We're all just talking here....no need for the hostility.

4/4
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by 4/4 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:18 pm

RCUS wrote:Okay this all needs some clarification because people are getting confused:

1) The MAJORITY of people that are going to use M4L are looking at a minimum of a $300 investment.

2) While there IS a runtime for MAX, there IS NOT a runtime for MAX4LIVE, meaning if a MAX4LIVE user creates an awesome device that you must have, the MAJORITY of people will need to fork out at least $300 in order to use it.
max/msp/jitter = $700
M4L = $300 (bearing in mind M4L will also include the PLUGGO suite of plugins as M4L devices, PLUGGO alone used to cost $200 until they very recently discontinued it to make way for M4L)
So, despite the fact I think there should be an affordable M4L runtime if not a free one, you do get TREMENDOUS value for money for $300

RCUS wrote: 3) Many of us do not have the TIME to create M4L patches, so we are not going to shell out $300 for a program that we can't use. I am very tempted to buy M4L and start creating new awesomeness, but I also know that will take more time away from my already limited tracking/mixing/DJing time.
You don't have time to create max patches, but you'd like to use whatever the community are cooking up ? Well believe it or not that's not a new situation and as you know the done-thing for years has been the provision of a free runtime. But as I said above, there is an extremely significant discount given to potential M4L customers on the whole suite, and there is also the inclusion of PLUGGO which is a huge suite of instruments & fx which was valued at $200. So doing a little optimistic math, deducting the financial worth of PLUGGO, you can clearly see you're about $100 out of pocket for M4L and you gain $700 worth of code.

RCUS wrote: So the two logical choices that I would want are:

A) A free Runtime version of MAX4LIVE to run all the cool things people create
Provided PLUGGO is provided as content as promised, I disagree. I would say M4L should be $200ish purely from the point of view of included content/devices. Also allowing for development costs for the cross-over and it's not too much of a stretch of the imagination to bring you into the $300 territory, is it?

RCUS wrote: OR

B) An app store where I can get both free and paid Ableton devices as I please
that's not logical at all. How's flipping the distribution paradigm and encouraging patchers to sell their works (and stifling patch refinement/evolution & re/distribution in doing so, read: copyright quagmire) going to bring about a free M4L runtime ? Hair brained subsidy scheme is hair brained.

In your defense though, you don't seem too well informed on how things have been for years or what PLUGGO is or even the fact that most of PLUGGO is going to be included with M4L as ready-made devices
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RCUS
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by RCUS » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:55 pm

4/4 wrote:
In your defense though, you don't seem too well informed on how things have been for years or what PLUGGO is or even the fact that most of PLUGGO is going to be included with M4L as ready-made devices


You are correct. I did not know there would be this additional content and the value is definitely there.

It still doesn't mean people that have no TIME to create or edit M4L content should be charged a $300 fee to come to the party.

4/4
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by 4/4 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:06 pm

RCUS wrote:It still doesn't mean people that have no TIME to create or edit M4L content should be charged a $300 fee to come to the party.
100% agreed. But an app store is an arbitrary solution which only serves to flout all that has made max/msp/jitter and it's communities great in the first place. It's perverse, and the only justification for making such proposals is pure, unadulterated ignorance.

I hope an affordable, or better yet FREE, M4L runtime comes to be. But when you consider that M4L will come with at least $200 worth of content, it's hard to maintain indignation at the lack of a free runtime. Certainly it's no justification for lunacy like flipping the winning patch-sharing formula on it's head.
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Tone Deft
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:23 pm

Rave wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:Rave, yes I've read this idea from you for a few days, you've always mentioned that apps can be free.

what you haven't stated is what Ableton could do better than he could. AFAIK he's eager and ready. why the cock block? ;)

donationware is a good one. it seems tempus3r can tailor his site however people want. Ableton are pretty cool about listening to users, but probably not as flexible as tempus3r.


funny... I keep trying to submit this but new replies keep popping up. Rave you've created a monster!!!!

I am all for tempus3rs site - I just don't want to pay 249 euros for something I have no inclination of learning but would love to play with the new apps created from it. I am willing to pay for these new apps (we are talking cheap here)
my question was what would Ableton do better than tempu3er? why ask a corporation to do this?

there's no reason tempus3r couldn't host apps of the quality you'd pay for. how about this... if Ableton hosted the site wouldn't they take a part of the proceeds? would tempus3r?
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Tone Deft
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:35 pm

wait a few months, you can buy it from john gordon at half price.


users sharing apps is a cornerstone of this max/msp. it can be tricky to make certain things so you re-use what you know works. one of the first lessons with max/msp is to open a help file, unlock it, copy the sample program and paste it into your own. beyond that you develop your own suite of widgets that you know works, beyond that you go search for a patch that someone else has done.
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Tone Deft
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:43 pm

I have a hard time calling it programming but it is.

what I've done on some nights, I get home from work totally exhausted from posting on the forum all day but I want to play with audio. I'll flip on the TV, run it into max/msp and just start dropping things onto the audio. add a filter, drop in a delay, play with the objects, learn something new, just dick around. it doesn't have to be rigorous programming and swearing at the computer (but it can absolutely be that way LOL!)
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4/4
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by 4/4 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:44 pm

Rave wrote:Get ya.
:roll:


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Jekblad
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by Jekblad » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:57 pm

too much reading to have a real opinion but...

i'm a regular no max experience user who just want to have cool new fun interesting plug-ins to play with and in. I would love to pay a little here and there for cool stuff too. I'll buy m4l just for that reason! I intend to learn max but not for a while really. Until then i want to play with step sequencers and shufflers and etc because it's fun.

A cheap runtime would be nice, like live intro etc 50 to 100 bucks. A free runtime seems foolish to me, as the runtime has the potential for huge userbase. This way it's like buy runtime for 100 bucks and then pay 3rd party cats to build custom instruments, or grab what they have and pay 5 bucks a pop and scrounge all the free sites.

Why devalue a product by not allowing people to pay for it ya know? In general i'm happier with things i've paid for because i have an investment in it, vs a free plug i ran into.

Even if there is an app store, as long as they allow 3rd party guys to distribute stuff for free/paid who cares?
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Re: Would you like an app store for M4L? (Apps can be free too)

Post by Poster » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:15 pm

I voted No, but actually I don't care if an app store will pop up..
eventually the impact of the sharing community will both be stronger and more interesting..

if you want something to compare; selling Reaktor ensembles does not work..
NI had some packs for sale, they ran ok I think.. primarily because they are of a very high standard..
some other sites offer them, but the User Library is just too powerfull to commercially compete with..

I wouldn't mind paying for a conceptually very very interesting, hard laboured patch..
such as Tim Exile's 'The Finger' Reaktor patch.. class A+.. years of conceptualization/building/finetuning..
those are just very rare and will not let you run a store on that alone..

open source FTW..

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