Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
starving student
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by starving student » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:06 am

:mrgreen: and on top of all of this, look...this is music and the craft behind it, there is nothing wrong
with talking about the same issues over and over again, even if they are a mistake, a misinterpretation, or something else like a real issue. there's nothing wrong with being a 'noobie' and reading through all of the threads on the forum or being a noobie and asking a question in your first post, if you don't own the land you live on or the streets you walk on or the land that you work on or a piece of land in florida, there's no reason to get all hot and bothered about music questions that you've heard before.
you don't own the internet, calm down and let somebody else answer the question please...


leedsquietman
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by leedsquietman » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:40 am

Cool Edit Pro is now Adobe Audition. Adobe bought the product out. Apart from not having MIDI (still doesn't) and no plugin delay compensation (until Adobe included it later in Audition 1.5), Cool Edit Pro was fine and compared equally with other DAW specs of the day. Adobe Audition continues to compare to every other DAW out there.

Graduates of Berklee, Fullsail, SAE Institute are not always the all seeing eye. This is another discussion we've had multiple times here, some people who are even instructors said there was more hype than substance in some of these courses and that some of the instructors weren't fit for the job.

Anyway, I've decided that this post is redundant, you're not going to convert someone without masses of scientific, easily tangible and audible proof, so I take my seat on the naysayers side and anyone else can sit wherever they want. I also like more CAKE :P - that was the good part of this discussion ;)
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

3dot...
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by 3dot... » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:59 am

is this still going on ?! :roll:
hehe... we use samplitude where I work...
I would never think of using it for anything other than dull editing jobs....
but for this task it's pretty great...
and it's pretty buggy ...
Image

tigali
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by tigali » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:35 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
tigali wrote:And I hope bringing this stuff up won't affect my chances when I go for Ableton Trainer Certification next year. :)
/facepalm

I most certainly hope it does. it's an argument that only a n00b DAW user would bring up. it's a common debate that's never been substantiated. if you've been around this stuff for a while you'd know that. re-read the thread, the horse is dead, everyone from typical users to Live developers have chimed in and you missed all the information you need. now you have to go learn why it's a retarded argument, seriously, you should. you as a trainer? christ. :roll:

here's a clue for you kid, I posted a picture of a chick because she's far more interesting to talk about than this dramatical poo flinging bullshit. get it?
Image



machinesworking - wow. seriously, how old are you again?
Methinks the girl doth protest too much.

Tone Deft
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by Tone Deft » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:38 pm

:lol: she's some French news reporter.

seriously though, you should read up on this topic. surely one of your students will start ranting about this. I've heard some really insane questions and answers in DAW classes.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

LoopStationZebra
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by LoopStationZebra » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:47 pm

DIE THREAD, DIE!!!!!
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

tigali
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by tigali » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:02 pm

Tone Deft wrote::lol: she's some French news reporter.

seriously though, you should read up on this topic. surely one of your students will start ranting about this. I've heard some really insane questions and answers in DAW classes.
I meant you, not her. You should read up on your Shakespeare.

Tone Deft
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by Tone Deft » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:07 pm

yeah, Hamlet says it to his mother during the 'play' in Hamlet. one of my favorites. you got the quote wrong, it's "the lady doth protest too much, methinks."
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

3phase
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by 3phase » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:30 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:you have no idea what you're talking about. the reason the conversation turns to soft porn and slagging matches is because this has been gone over about a million times on this forum. Go ahead and search for it. It is completely unproductive because no one who claims to hear a difference is willing to present any proof other than that they are "pros" with golden ears.




anyway, want to talk about midi timing? I suggest you do that in a thread that is about that. This one isn't. read the title.


.lm.

midi timing?good idea.. since 8 we are back in the bad times regarding this... or has it other sources? no way to find out in a teenage fanboy forum..

and towards the sound quality questions and proove.. its hard work to generate proove for what your ears tell you.. because eras are in teh audioworld the best measuring instrument of all.. but the easiest to fool..

but one for sure.. as an audio üro you learn to trust your ears.. but all waht yours ears tell you was confirmed earlier or later by proove and is common sens by now...

remenber the 16bit 44k debate beginning of the 80´s? you shuld try to go in a news archive.. the internet is not helpfull before you dont get much info on pre internet times... but..

you will find the discussion and the arguments to pretty indentical to the actual daw sound quality debate...

the "its impossibel because 2+2 = 2" argment is the oldest and one that was disproved most often in the past..
mathematical argumentation only works when its based on the wright formula.. and the formula for sound quality isnt developed yet.. its work in progress.. there are many more new parametres and measurng methods now than ther was in 1980.. and we know now that vinyl adds to the sound, what can be called an fx, while 16bit 44k in reality degenerates a sound because artefacts on the sampling frequency the human brain gets even when measuring wise the are well below the noise floor...

pretty muc the same as we have now.. some daw producers enhance theire sound by appling some special algorythms to the summing..others just add as they have learned in school... plus some hard to find artefacts like zippery noise on fades...
wher ableton really sucks in the pat.. or bad samplerate conversion algorythms.. or internal level sacling concepts that are more done for max headroom insted less conversion.. or bugs... there are many reason why daw´s can sound different..


and considering the amount of pros that think thant ableton sucks there... its probaly more wise to look for possible optimisations than to claim that there is no problem when yo canz proof that there is a problem..
I am musican. i want a good sounding mixbus.. i dont care if its done mathematical nerd correct 2+2 = 4
I prefer the one that mimics nature.. and formulas of nature tend to be more complex than a simple adition..

but.. this said only beliving in that ableton has done it wright.. becuase if.. the others have cheated and put more into it than just doing it wright...
if the others dont apllied special tricks ... than there must be something ableton has overseen to be improoved yet..
So in either case.. a better sound never hurts.. even people that are happy now would like it..

And about proove...
no one ever prooved that nuklear reaktors pose a danger to the public... even chernobyl and the high leukemie rates in the distant neigborhood was not what would stand as a proof.. and there is also no proove that free nukes for everyone would pose more dangers to the world than us/ ussr only nukes. and so on and so one..

having no proove by hand execept an own opinion that is shared with many others is maybe not enough to convince everybody.. but maybe enough to alarm the development department..
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

leisuremuffin
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by leisuremuffin » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:28 am

it hurts my head to try to read and understand your posts so i don't think i'll bother.


if anybody wants to translate that for me i'll try to come up with a response.


in the meantime i stick with my statement that no human being can hear any difference between DAWs if we're talking about just playback and mixing.


.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

ThrowAway
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by ThrowAway » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:21 am

3phase wrote:

midi timing?good idea.. since 8 we are back in the bad times regarding this... or has it other sources? no way to find out in a teenage fanboy forum..

and towards the sound quality questions and proove.. its hard work to generate proove for what your ears tell you.. because eras are in teh audioworld the best measuring instrument of all.. but the easiest to fool..

but one for sure.. as an audio üro you learn to trust your ears.. but all waht yours ears tell you was confirmed earlier or later by proove and is common sens by now...

remenber the 16bit 44k debate beginning of the 80´s? you shuld try to go in a news archive.. the internet is not helpfull before you dont get much info on pre internet times... but..

you will find the discussion and the arguments to pretty indentical to the actual daw sound quality debate...

the "its impossibel because 2+2 = 2" argment is the oldest and one that was disproved most often in the past..
mathematical argumentation only works when its based on the wright formula.. and the formula for sound quality isnt developed yet.. its work in progress.. there are many more new parametres and measurng methods now than ther was in 1980.. and we know now that vinyl adds to the sound, what can be called an fx, while 16bit 44k in reality degenerates a sound because artefacts on the sampling frequency the human brain gets even when measuring wise the are well below the noise floor...

pretty muc the same as we have now.. some daw producers enhance theire sound by appling some special algorythms to the summing..others just add as they have learned in school... plus some hard to find artefacts like zippery noise on fades...
wher ableton really sucks in the pat.. or bad samplerate conversion algorythms.. or internal level sacling concepts that are more done for max headroom insted less conversion.. or bugs... there are many reason why daw´s can sound different..


and considering the amount of pros that think thant ableton sucks there... its probaly more wise to look for possible optimisations than to claim that there is no problem when yo canz proof that there is a problem..
I am musican. i want a good sounding mixbus.. i dont care if its done mathematical nerd correct 2+2 = 4
I prefer the one that mimics nature.. and formulas of nature tend to be more complex than a simple adition..

but.. this said only beliving in that ableton has done it wright.. becuase if.. the others have cheated and put more into it than just doing it wright...
if the others dont apllied special tricks ... than there must be something ableton has overseen to be improoved yet..
So in either case.. a better sound never hurts.. even people that are happy now would like it..

And about proove...
no one ever prooved that nuklear reaktors pose a danger to the public... even chernobyl and the high leukemie rates in the distant neigborhood was not what would stand as a proof.. and there is also no proove that free nukes for everyone would pose more dangers to the world than us/ ussr only nukes. and so on and so one..

having no proove by hand execept an own opinion that is shared with many others is maybe not enough to convince everybody.. but maybe enough to alarm the development department..
Those red squiggly lines are there for a reason.

leedsquietman
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by leedsquietman » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:38 am

I want a good mixbus.


Every DAW out there, including freebie stuff like Kristal and Audacity gives you this, so long as your hardware/gear is up to scratch and you know how to use it. If you can't get your mix to sound right, blame yourself not the DAW. Invest in better preamps, mics and learn how to mix properly - this will give you a better platform to good sound. Just changing your DAW is unlikely to help much except for the following...

If some DAW motivates you because you like it's flashing lights, or like it's workflow better, or think it's plugins are better than use it. Accusing Live of having a poor mixbuss is not correct and more based upon urban legend and poor knowledge of how to use the software. IMHO most studio engineers are very set in their ways. Most of them for the longest time dissed any kind of digital. Now that they HAVE to know Protools to get work, they don't like to have to learn other gear, so dismiss it. A bit like if you were working in a factory on a machine you have mastered and it's easy and then the boss says 'We're scrapping the old machine and bringing in this new device - we'll send you on a week's training course and give you a 2500 page manual - get acquainted with it quickly. You think - man, that sucks. Then you frantically start digging through the internet to find fault with the new machine. People hate change and manipulate situations to try and avoid it.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

pix
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by pix » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:23 am

I have a fireface 400.

I can monitor my inputs directly bypassing live. The sound is wide and detailed (highs and lows mainly)

as soon as I route through Live's inputs and monitor the Live's master out the sound gets scooped and the lows get weird with something funky in the mid-lows (100-200Hz maybe?). This is without recording anything. just routing the audio.

If I send each Live's track to a separate track in the fireface busses and mix using RME's total mix software (all tracks at unity gain) the sound gets much better but there's still something about the direct feed that makes it better. this is particularly noticeable in the hi end "air", the width and separation of the sounds and the low end cohesion.

I don't care if you call Stephen Hawkins to deny this. I won't believe him.

Will this stop me from using Live in the near future...probably not, but if something with a similar work flow shows up on the market with better sound quality I'm the first one to switch over.

smartass303
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by smartass303 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:50 am

pix wrote:I have a fireface 400.

I can monitor my inputs directly bypassing live. The sound is wide and detailed (highs and lows mainly)

as soon as I route through Live's inputs and monitor the Live's master out the sound gets scooped and the lows get weird with something funky in the mid-lows (100-200Hz maybe?). This is without recording anything. just routing the audio.

If I send each Live's track to a separate track in the fireface busses and mix using RME's total mix software (all tracks at unity gain) the sound gets much better but there's still something about the direct feed that makes it better. this is particularly noticeable in the hi end "air", the width and separation of the sounds and the low end cohesion.

I don't care if you call Stephen Hawkins to deny this. I won't believe him.

Will this stop me from using Live in the near future...probably not, but if something with a similar work flow shows up on the market with better sound quality I'm the first one to switch over.
this is weird,
i have been working with a fireface recently and recorded directly to tape and to ableton.
the differences were marginal at best (until we drove the tape hot).
maybe it was the speakers i didnt know too well. but this is one crazy story.

support maybe?

3ß3

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