Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Korhan
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by Korhan » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:52 pm

stringtapper wrote:
Korhan wrote: My opinion is that Ableton will never offer a free runtime for Max for Live, as that would mean both Max oldtimers and Live oldtimers, probably Ableton's main customer segments, will go for the runtime. If there ever is a free runtime then Max users will create the max patches on Max5 and use it in Live. Live users will wait for people to create Max for Live patches and use them. This does not seem profitable to Ableton or Cycling.

Korhan
This isn't possible so that won't be the reason they won't make a runtime (if they don't). The only way a M4L runtime would work is if you could not edit devices and if you can't do that then there's no way to get a patch made in Max into a M4L device.
Are you sure this is not possible? What would stop a Max user from creating some plugin and save it using plugin/plugout instead of soundin soundout (or whatever these are called in Max) and then load it in Live? After all, the only difference between the two systems is that Ableton does all audio/midi in M4L. Won't it be possible to write M4L-friendly patches in Max5?
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alex.the.forge
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by alex.the.forge » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:40 am

jon_moore wrote: If a runtime is bundled with the same number of devices as you get with the full package I personally believe $99 dollars undervalues what's on offer .
maybe so, but these are tough financial times where there is far less disposable income around and all the other software makers are getting really competitive - I seem to get a new email every other day offering some good deal

$169 for me to go from NI Komplete 2 to Komplete 6 is actually a pretty insane price for what you get, but I think it is really the right move. I get guitar rig and Massive for that plus all the updates - that would cost twice that just for guitar rig

All a $99 runtime entry price point would do is attract way more people, who probably otherwise wouldn't buy M4L, and once you own the runtime and can try out all those devices etc then you're far more likely to get an appetite for doing your own tinkering, and then 6 months down the line when you're ready it's now only $200 because you already have the runtime

I can't really see how it would be in any way a bad idea. It would be like a really flexible demo with no limitations and I even have a feeling they'd sell more than the full version -there are stacks of long term Live users who've been saying it's not for them because they just want to make music. A runtime would not detract from than, while for someone who doesn't know max it would be a huge distraction having to learn it form scratch

not to mention that there is already the fact that C74 always provide a free runtime for Max

the fact that m4L is half the price of the full version of Max is irrelevant, they are different products and it's completely meaningless to people who are just not interested in building their own patches. From that point of view $300 is way too much to spend just to get access to the devices that you can't edit. Maybe not in the past but in the current economic climate where there are more plug-ins around than ever before I think it's too much for those people to spend.

/2c

jon_moore
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by jon_moore » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:58 am

alex.the.forge wrote:
jon_moore wrote: If a runtime is bundled with the same number of devices as you get with the full package I personally believe $99 dollars undervalues what's on offer .
maybe so, but these are tough financial times where there is far less disposable income around and all the other software makers are getting really competitive - I seem to get a new email every other day offering some good deal

$169 for me to go from NI Komplete 2 to Komplete 6 is actually a pretty insane price for what you get, but I think it is really the right move. I get guitar rig and Massive for that plus all the updates - that would cost twice that just for guitar rig

All a $99 runtime entry price point would do is attract way more people, who probably otherwise wouldn't buy M4L, and once you own the runtime and can try out all those devices etc then you're far more likely to get an appetite for doing your own tinkering, and then 6 months down the line when you're ready it's now only $200 because you already have the runtime

I can't really see how it would be in any way a bad idea. It would be like a really flexible demo with no limitations and I even have a feeling they'd sell more than the full version -there are stacks of long term Live users who've been saying it's not for them because they just want to make music. A runtime would not detract from than, while for someone who doesn't know max it would be a huge distraction having to learn it form scratch

not to mention that there is already the fact that C74 always provide a free runtime for Max

the fact that m4L is half the price of the full version of Max is irrelevant, they are different products and it's completely meaningless to people who are just not interested in building their own patches. From that point of view $300 is way too much to spend just to get access to the devices that you can't edit. Maybe not in the past but in the current economic climate where there are more plug-ins around than ever before I think it's too much for those people to spend.

/2c
Fair points, well made.

:)
JM

http://leftside-wobble.blogspot.com/

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leonard
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by leonard » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:37 am

i don't know where he said it but stringtapper stated the mfl in demo mode provides precicely the same functionality as the current max runtime except with max for live. there you go, max for live runtime.
now please stop saying the same thing over and over.
thanks.
???

alex.the.forge
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by alex.the.forge » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:27 am

leonard wrote:i don't know where he said it but stringtapper stated the mfl in demo mode provides precicely the same functionality as the current max runtime except with max for live. there you go, max for live runtime.
now please stop saying the same thing over and over.
thanks.
erm...is that the same thread where I also pointed out that it's not the same thing if Live is forced into demo mode....?

leonard
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by leonard » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:24 am

lol. most likely.
???

steff3
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by steff3 » Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:57 am

[quote="Tone Deft"]meanwhile, back at the topic...

if there's always been a free runtime with max/msp from C74 doesn't it naturally follow that there should be one for Ableton?

[/quote]

Why? I mean the price, the environment and the reason people ask for a runtime of M4L indicate that Max and M4L are oriented towards different market segments ... so, how to draw conclusions from one of those and tranfer it to the other?

steff3
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by steff3 » Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:04 am

[quote="alex.the.forge"][quote="jon_moore"] If a runtime is bundled with the same number of devices as you get with the full package I personally believe $99 dollars undervalues what's on offer .[/quote]

maybe so, but these are tough financial times where there is far less disposable income around [/quote]


right, and the best way to deal with it is to apply just what led to it - get more for less or nothing. Buy a house that pays for itself ... sure, totally logical .... if the demonstration of the last 18 months does not help to understand that this principle does not work, I guess nothing will ...

well :)

And right, you can get Komplete 6 from Komplete 2 for 169 or so, and with M4L you even get a better deal - not only that Max was more affordable than Komplete 2 but also the crossgrade is only 99 ..... And M4L has the same number of modules like Max5 and Max 4, inKomplete 6 does not compared to Komplete 5 ...

best

leonard
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by leonard » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:00 am

ok help me out here.
i never used the max runtime before, no need. i just looked at it now. cant edit, can't save. correct me if i'm wrong, but mfl demo: can edit, can't save.
are people offering to pay for something which they can currently get for free with more functionality?
???

djod
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by djod » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:28 am

Tone Deft wrote:I change my sig every few weeks, no worries.
Thanks!!! Now I can read all the lovely conversations without distraction :lol:

max4steff3
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by max4steff3 » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:48 pm

leonard wrote:ok help me out here.
i never used the max runtime before, no need. i just looked at it now. cant edit, can't save. correct me if i'm wrong, but mfl demo: can edit, can't save.
are people offering to pay for something which they can currently get for free with more functionality?
because facts are not important, a pretended advantage is more important and gives a better feeling - the ability to believe that there is an advantage is what matters - ignorance is bliss - that's why ....

sacredgeometry
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by sacredgeometry » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:28 pm

I like many others upgraded under the impression that live 8 users would be able to use max creations even if they did not buy max.......if this doesn't happen i wont be upgrading until the release is finalised (i..e a version behind)...
...sorry, but companies that lie about what is going in their software loose so much of my respect.


Max/MSP has a runtime ...Max4Live should too!
Peace + Hugs

Brian

stringtapper
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by stringtapper » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:09 pm

sacredgeometry wrote:I like many others upgraded under the impression that live 8 users would be able to use max creations even if they did not buy max.......if this doesn't happen i wont be upgrading until the release is finalised (i..e a version behind)...
...sorry, but companies that lie about what is going in their software loose so much of my respect.


Max/MSP has a runtime ...Max4Live should too!
Show me where they lied. They never once said that Live 8 would be able to run Max for Live Devices without Max for Live itself. It has always been presented as a separate add-on.

Also your first two sentences sound strange side by side. The first says you upgraded, and the second says you "won't be upgrading until the release is finalized." What are you talking about?
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stringtapper
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by stringtapper » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:19 pm

Korhan wrote:
stringtapper wrote:This isn't possible so that won't be the reason they won't make a runtime (if they don't). The only way a M4L runtime would work is if you could not edit devices and if you can't do that then there's no way to get a patch made in Max into a M4L device.
Are you sure this is not possible? What would stop a Max user from creating some plugin and save it using plugin/plugout instead of soundin soundout (or whatever these are called in Max) and then load it in Live? After all, the only difference between the two systems is that Ableton does all audio/midi in M4L. Won't it be possible to write M4L-friendly patches in Max5?
You can write patches in Max 5 that contain code that will work in a M4L device, but you still have to have a way to create a M4L device and edit it to paste in the code. If you have an un-editable runtime then there's no way to get the code into the device (or create a device at all I'd imagine). Oh yes you could get your one friend who has M4L "Full" to paste your code and make a device, but then there's another good reason for them never to make a runtime in the first place.
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$4mU3l
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Re: Will Live 8.1 have Max4Live runtime?

Post by $4mU3l » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:20 pm

Rave wrote:This has been discussed at great length and at present the response is no.

This of course sucks.
Indeed it sucks! All I want to do with Max4Live is to run the StepSequenzer from Novation... But 249€ to use my Launchpad as a step sequenzer?!? :roll:

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I would rather buy NI MASCHINE!

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