Live + Machinedrum: Why?

[ark]

There's a Machinedrum demo in New York next week, and I'm going. What I hope to find out is why people who use Machinedrums think they're so fantastic.

So to the Machinedrum enthusiasts out there: What can you do with it that you can't do with Live? I've asked similar questions on other fora, and the most common answer seems to be "Parameter locks." But can't you achieve something very similar with clip envelopes on a track with a drum rack on it?

This is not a sarcastic question or an attempt to start a flame war. I have absolutely no doubt that there are people on this list who consider a Machinedrum an indespensible companion to a laptop running Live. I'm trying to understand why so that I know what to look for and what questions to ask at the demo.

[Tarekith]

1st - I'm totally jealous, I'd love to make it to that NYC event.

2nd - Yes, Parameter locks are a huge part of the MD, and I honestly can't think of anyway to mimic those in Live. The other thing that's great is the workflow, being able to "perform" with the machine and never having to stop playback to do anything. The UW aspect is wild too, does a lot of things that no other piece of hardware does.

[freshdrumma]

i think the main thing about it is:

being a self contained hardware that sounds ace!
you can do everything in live, but some people (like me) likes to gets dirty and corrupted by hardware

[Tarekith]

Yeah it's hard to describe really, they're just totally different ways of working more than anything. The MD is really a FUN box to play with. Once you get to know it, it's also very fast to get ideas down on too. Then again, I'm really biased.

[ark]

Parameter locks are a huge part of the MD, and I honestly can't think of anyway to mimic those in Live.

If I understand correctly, a parameter lock is a way of assigning a particular value of a particular parameter to a particular step of a sequence, so that whenever playback passes through that step, that parameter is set to that value (and then restored to whatever it was before). Yes?

So is the reason you can't do that in Live is that if you use a clip envelope to automate a parameter, that envelope applies to every step in the sequence? And that if you use parameter locks, the steps you haven't locked are still free to be tweaked from the front panel?

[Actuel]

i too heart my MD/UW. the only thing i would add is that the MD feels more like an instrument than any other drum machine i have ever encountered. writing on the MD is very fluid.

[Tarekith]

If I understand correctly, a parameter lock is a way of assigning a particular value of a particular parameter to a particular step of a sequence, so that whenever playback passes through that step, that parameter is set to that value (and then restored to whatever it was before). Yes?

>>>Correct. You can enter the locks one at a time, or while recording in realtime if you want. Similar to motion sequencing on the Korg grooveboxes, but you get a lot more control. <<<

So is the reason you can't do that in Live is that if you use a clip envelope to automate a parameter, that envelope applies to every step in the sequence?

>>> You could use an envelope to sort of mimic this in Live, but again it's the way you interact with the machine that makes this such a fluid process. In Live you'd need to manually manually draw all that data in, where as on the MD you just press a step key and turn the knob you want to the desired value. Done. <<<

And that if you use parameter locks, the steps you haven't locked are still free to be tweaked from the front panel?

>>>Correct. You can freely tweak or overdub parameter locks if you want, or erase them from just certain steps if you want. All on the fly and without having to stop the sequencer. The MD also has CTRL (control) machines that let you do things like p-lock all the synth parameters from all synth engines with one trigger, or p-lock the effects parameters. So you can make a pattern where the delay amount changes for each step, or the reverb depth, or change the master EQ parameters, etc. Very flexible in this regard. <<<

[ark]

>>> You could use an envelope to sort of mimic this in Live, but again it's the way you interact with the machine that makes this such a fluid process. In Live you'd need to manually manually draw all that data in, where as on the MD you just press a step key and turn the knob you want to the desired value. Done. <<<

I wonder how hard it would be to write a M4L patch to do something similar with an APC40?

(I'm not anywhere near the point where I know how to do so, but it's an idea.)

[Tarekith]

That's an interesting idea actually, I could see that being done with the APC.

[ark]

That's an interesting idea actually, I could see that being done with the APC.

I figure it will take me a year to learn enough about Max to do it

[Tarekith]

Better you than me

[ark]

Better you than me

Yeah, well I'm a software guy from way back. For example, I published this 21 years ago. But I don't feel like dropping everything else I'm doing to study Max full-time, which is why I think it will take a year instead of a month.

[KainProject]

Cant you achieve that with dummie clips and set the maximum values as automation?

[Saxer]

i think one major thing of maschine is working without mouse

[Khazul]

I guess the main thing about the MD-UW for me is the real time resampling and mangling and the way its UI works for real time tweaking. So far I havent found a viable software option for that that is completely real time and so intuitive in the same way the machine drum is.

The parameter locks are cool of coure and make it fairly unique in hardware in terms of the combination of feature and its usability (other hardware has similar, but nowhere near as usable) and anyway - its just a form of clip based parameter automation at the end of the day when looking at it from the pattern mode perpective.

Perhaps I might explore some of this in Max4Live - I shouldnt think it would be hard to some of the key real time essentials of this MD feature.

I guess the other MD biggy is the way all these feature translate into a truly useful song mode.