groove quantise : I don't get why the note length change

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
mr.ergonomics
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groove quantise : I don't get why the note length change

Post by mr.ergonomics » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:31 pm

I don't get why the note length change too when you commit a groove. Is there a way that only the note moves to the new 'groove' position? I think not, but I still have hopes that I'm just dumb.




orginal midi with "MPC 16 Funker-60" as groove:

Image
(bigger image)
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9876/org.jpg


commit:
Image
(bigger image)
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6408/quant.jpg

edit: changed the topic to a more clear one...
Last edited by mr.ergonomics on Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

starving student
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why...

Post by starving student » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:46 am

got this from rinsemeister, great insight check the videos

http://www.medwaystudios.com/forums/sho ... e-329.html

davepermen
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why...

Post by davepermen » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:36 pm

the length change is obvious. think about it like warping. if all your midi notes are touching each other, no space in between, then you don't want groove to move them and suddenly make notes overlap or other getting spaces between. you still want it one after the other, connected. so it doesn't just change the start position of the notes, but stretches their end positions, too, so that they continue to fit together.

just add notes inbetween your existing ones to fill all the spaces, and you see that.

it's just like warping.
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davepermen
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why...

Post by davepermen » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:39 pm

it actually can add spaces. depends on the groove.
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djsynchro
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why...

Post by djsynchro » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:44 pm

groovy!

mr.ergonomics
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why...

Post by mr.ergonomics » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:59 pm

that makes sense davepermen, thanks, but I start thinking that it's really a design flaw that you can't "just" move notes to there groove position without changing their length too (cubase just moves your notes to the groove position for example).

what do you think?

Sage
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why...

Post by Sage » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:09 pm

mr.ergonomics wrote:that makes sense davepermen, thanks, but I start thinking that it's really a design flaw that you can't "just" move notes to there groove position without changing their length too (cubase just moves your notes to the groove position for example).

what do you think?
The way groove/shuffle/swing works it shouldn't just move the notes if you actually think about what's going on.

By the sounds of it, Cubase has a design flaw because it simply moves notes rather than actually applies groove to them.

davepermen
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why...

Post by davepermen » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:19 pm

mr.ergonomics wrote:that makes sense davepermen, thanks, but I start thinking that it's really a design flaw that you can't "just" move notes to there groove position without changing their length too (cubase just moves your notes to the groove position for example).

what do you think?

no, as a groove in ableton (and in my definition, too) consists of rythmic variation, variation of note length, and variation of note volume.

and all of these can be changed with a groove.

maybe just try another groove pattern, that "only moves notes"? at least the 16T quantize groove (isn't really a groove, but anyways) does that.
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mr.ergonomics
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why...

Post by mr.ergonomics » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:26 am

I still think that is is a design flaw that you don't have an option to maintain the note length.

use case: you play some notes with the keyboard. now you have an audioloop and you want to copy that timing to your 'played' notes. but if your commit that groove all your played notes have a altered length - you just want to adjust the start from the transients with your notes.
maybe just try another groove pattern, that "only moves notes"? at least the 16T quantize groove (isn't really a groove, but anyways) does that.
no, it's just because that groove quantize all notes (quantize value is 100% in this groove)!

djgroovy
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why...

Post by djgroovy » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:06 am

djsynchro wrote:groovy!
Yes? :mrgreen:

mr.ergonomics
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why...

Post by mr.ergonomics » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:24 am

The way groove/shuffle/swing works it shouldn't just move the notes if you actually think about what's going on.

Sage: can you explain what you mean a bit more detailed? I still don't get why this is the 'right way' in ableton. And even if: just to adjust/quantise the note start to a 'groove grid' is really useful for midi editing.

still a bit frustrated that I can't groove quantise without changing the note length.

starving student
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why...

Post by starving student » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:08 am

didn't the cat at medway studios explain it good enough?

mr.ergonomics
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why...

Post by mr.ergonomics » Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:18 am

well, he said the same as I do at 15.00 min....he thinks that it's odd.

mr.ergonomics
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why the note length change

Post by mr.ergonomics » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:51 am

[5680] groove com. remembers 1st base value + note length

wasted some time to get more info about this issue and at least there are people out there how thinks this is a bug too.

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 28&start=0

mr.ergonomics
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Re: groove quantise : I don't get why the note length change

Post by mr.ergonomics » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:00 am

a push again, does anyone know if it was an intention that the note length change too? I don't know a single sequencer which does the same. I don't like that behaviour and have the feeling that I don't get too good results with the groove quantisation in ableton compared to other sequencers.

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