Hi.
I'm using Live 8.1, coming from Logic 9, and Stylus RMX 1.9.2d. What I want to be able to do is use host automation to control, for example, Chaos Designer from a clip.
Example: For RMX parts 1 & 2 I want a clip for a non-chaos & chaos version of the part. When I trigger the chaos clip I want Chaos Designer turned on and maybe to modulate the buzz probability, when I trigger the non-chaos part I want it turned off.
Following the guidelines I have one track for RMX itself and two further MIDI tracks routing MIDI to RMX parts 1 & 2 respectively. I drag in the non-chaos & chaos MIDI files into clips and trigger them. Nice, very nice.
Where things come apart is in trying to automate the chaos designer. I want to be able to do this independently for different RMX parts, i.e. I might trigger the chaos clip on the first part and non-chaos clip on the second part. So chaos designer should be turned on for RMX part 1, and then off for RMX part 2.
In Logic the extra tracks I use to control multi-timbral RMX are associated with the plugin so I have access to host automation for the plugin. But in Live the MIDI tracks seem to be just that, they are routing MIDI to the track hosting RMX but have no other association with it and, hence, no ability to automate parameters of the instrument on it's track.
Before I start veering into the world of MIDI learn I wanted to see if anyone from the Live community knew of a way around this constraint on the MIDI tracks not having the ability to automate another track? Or some other automation based approach. I am very new to the Live way of working and may be bound by my Logic frame of reference.
Any help welcome.
Thanks,
Matt
Can I automate multi-timbral Stylus RMX using clip envelopes
Re: Can I automate multi-timbral Stylus RMX using clip envelopes
Do you use additional midi tracks with external instruments on to drive the different parts in stylus ?
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Re: Can I automate multi-timbral Stylus RMX using clip envelopes
That's right.madlab wrote:Do you use additional midi tracks with external instruments on to drive the different parts in stylus ?
I've found that I am able to, for example, automate chaos on/off by clip using MIDI learn. But it's a far more cumbersome approach than using automation.
In Logic the extra tracks used to drive the different parts of the multi-timbral RMX plugin are also associated with the plugin and, hence, have access to it's automation parameters. It's very useful that this is so and I'm still hoping there may be a (non-MIDI) analog in Live I haven't found yet.
M.
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Re: Can I automate multi-timbral Stylus RMX using clip envelopes
I know you can do it by midi learning a control in stylus and then sending that midi cc from the extra midi track to the one containing stylus. But that kind of sucks because I don't think you can name the parameter in the clip envelope, it's just midi cc # whatever, so I'm not sure how you'd remember what it was controlling. I don't know of another way.
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Re: Can I automate multi-timbral Stylus RMX using clip envelopes
It's pretty easy to assign host automation for most of the controls in Stylus RMX.
Here are the steps:
- Open the RMX Utility Menu, then the "MIDI Learn" sub-menu.
- Select the "Enable Host Automation" option.
- Finally, click on the parameter in the RMX GUI that you want to automate.
That's it! The parameter will be assigned to the next available automation number in Live.
If you first enable the "Configure" mode in Live, then do the steps above, you'll see the assigned parameter appear in the Configuration panel after selecting it. That will also show you which host automation number it was assigned. (You can also use "Show All" from the same RMX MIDI Learn menu to open the MIDI Learn Report showing all your assignments.)
So, for your Buzz control:
- In RMX, open the Chaos Designer,
- Select Enable Host Automation from the Utility -> MIDI Learn menu
- Then click on the Buzz fader.
Voila.
peace.
Here are the steps:
- Open the RMX Utility Menu, then the "MIDI Learn" sub-menu.
- Select the "Enable Host Automation" option.
- Finally, click on the parameter in the RMX GUI that you want to automate.
That's it! The parameter will be assigned to the next available automation number in Live.
If you first enable the "Configure" mode in Live, then do the steps above, you'll see the assigned parameter appear in the Configuration panel after selecting it. That will also show you which host automation number it was assigned. (You can also use "Show All" from the same RMX MIDI Learn menu to open the MIDI Learn Report showing all your assignments.)
So, for your Buzz control:
- In RMX, open the Chaos Designer,
- Select Enable Host Automation from the Utility -> MIDI Learn menu
- Then click on the Buzz fader.
Voila.
peace.
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Apps:: Live Suite 9.7.4, Logic Pro X
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Re: Can I automate multi-timbral Stylus RMX using clip envelopes
I should probably add a few things to that... "how to enable automation" doesn't completely answer the original poster's question.
The simple answer to that question is "yes, you can"...
Concept:: All of your automation assignments will be applied to the track containing RMX. That's also the track all your other RMX tracks will be controlled from using clip envelopes. Those envelopes can control parameters for any of the parts with automation from that track. That automation will affect how the clips in other MIDI tracks (routed to RMX) playback as well.
Here's a "tutorial" setup as an example. This will allow you to control the Chaos Buzz parameters for two RMX parts using Automation Clip Envelopes. The automation will affect clips playing in two separate MIDI tracks.
First you need to set up routing, and get everything assigned, loaded and ready:
Routing:
- Create 3 MIDI tracks.
- In track 01 load an instance of RMX. Route the "MIDI to" in tracks 2 & 3 back to the RMX track, to parts 1 and 2 respectively.
Assignments:
- Select the RMX track, and turn on Live's "Configure Mode" (select the Configure button to highlight it).
- In RMX, open the Chaos Designer for each part, and "enable host automation" for the Buzz faders in both Part 1 and Part 2. When assigning the automation, be sure to move the Buzz control in the RMX GUI, not just click on it. When you assign them, the Buzz parameters will appear in Live's Configure Pane (they will be named something like "1Main BuzzOnOff" and "2Main BuzzOnOff").
- After assigning, turn off Configure Mode (select the Configure button again to deselect it), but leave the Configure pane and those assignments visible for now.
Load 'em up:
- Load grooves into the first 2 RMX parts, and drag and drop their midi files from RMX to their respective MIDI tracks to create their clips.
- Finally, power on Chaos Designer for both Parts.
Test it:
- Trigger the clips in tracks 2 & 3. Select the RMX track. if you now move the assigned Buzz controls in Live's Configure pane, you should hear Buzz being applied to the clips as they playback.
If so, everything's setup and you're ready to create some clip envelopes!
Setup the Clip Envelopes:
- Create a 'dummy clip' in the RMX track by double clicking a cell. This is your automation "control clip".
- Select it, and adjust its length to whatever you want.
- Then select "Envelopes" in the clip editor.
- In the first Envelope drop-down menu, select Stylus RMX. In the second drop-down, you'll see the two Buzz parameters we assigned earlier.
- Select the "1Main Buzz" parameter, and edit its clip envelope (this will automate Buzz for the first RMX Part in midi track 2).
- Repeat for the "2Main Buzz" parameter (this is the automation for the second RMX part in track 3).
Now, whenever you trigger this 'control clip', the envelopes will automate the Chaos Buzz for any clips playing in the other two MIDI tracks. Success!
Two IMPORTANT concepts before I pass out from typing all of this...
1 - To apply the automation you setup in the clip envelopes, the 'control clip' in the RMX track has to be playing.
2 - Whatever parameter values are set in the Configure pane will take precedence over the clip envelope values.
# 2 is a VERY important concept because, for example, if the values for the Buzz parameters in the Configure pane are set to zero, the clip envelopes will have no effect at all. Even if part of the clip envelope is at max value, if the Configure pane control is set to say, 50%, that's as high as the parameter value will go... This is actually a cool thing, because it means you can draw some extreme envelope values, and then use the Configure pane controls to "limit" the effects of those.
It can also lead to those "why aren't my clip envelopes affecting anything??" kinds of moments, so I mention it...
TIP: you might want to MIDI Map the Configure pane automation assignments to controls on your hardware controller, so you can remote control the "level" of the effect being automated by the envelope. (and also to adjust the values when the automation 'control clips' aren't playing.) ... I say this because Buzz isn't the only parameter you will be automating this way. These steps apply to pretty much any parameter in RMX...
OK, let's test the setup:
- Select the RMX track, and make sure the assignments in the Configure pane are set to their Max value.
- Trigger all the clips.
You should hear your Chaos Buzz being automated by the "control clip", using the envelopes you created.
Look at the Chaos Editor in RMX. You should see the buzz fader moving along with the Clip Envelope automation.
Look at the Configure pane. You'll see the red "automation dot" moving according to your envelope (if you set the value in the Configure pane to something less than the max value in the envelope, you'll see that the parameter value -- the red dot -- never goes higher than that Configure pane setting).
That it... the basic concept... it's actually really easy to setup and use once you get the hang of how the parts work together. It's a LOT less complicated than my wordiness makes it look
Hope this helps some!!
peace.
The simple answer to that question is "yes, you can"...
Concept:: All of your automation assignments will be applied to the track containing RMX. That's also the track all your other RMX tracks will be controlled from using clip envelopes. Those envelopes can control parameters for any of the parts with automation from that track. That automation will affect how the clips in other MIDI tracks (routed to RMX) playback as well.
Here's a "tutorial" setup as an example. This will allow you to control the Chaos Buzz parameters for two RMX parts using Automation Clip Envelopes. The automation will affect clips playing in two separate MIDI tracks.
First you need to set up routing, and get everything assigned, loaded and ready:
Routing:
- Create 3 MIDI tracks.
- In track 01 load an instance of RMX. Route the "MIDI to" in tracks 2 & 3 back to the RMX track, to parts 1 and 2 respectively.
Assignments:
- Select the RMX track, and turn on Live's "Configure Mode" (select the Configure button to highlight it).
- In RMX, open the Chaos Designer for each part, and "enable host automation" for the Buzz faders in both Part 1 and Part 2. When assigning the automation, be sure to move the Buzz control in the RMX GUI, not just click on it. When you assign them, the Buzz parameters will appear in Live's Configure Pane (they will be named something like "1Main BuzzOnOff" and "2Main BuzzOnOff").
- After assigning, turn off Configure Mode (select the Configure button again to deselect it), but leave the Configure pane and those assignments visible for now.
Load 'em up:
- Load grooves into the first 2 RMX parts, and drag and drop their midi files from RMX to their respective MIDI tracks to create their clips.
- Finally, power on Chaos Designer for both Parts.
Test it:
- Trigger the clips in tracks 2 & 3. Select the RMX track. if you now move the assigned Buzz controls in Live's Configure pane, you should hear Buzz being applied to the clips as they playback.
If so, everything's setup and you're ready to create some clip envelopes!
Setup the Clip Envelopes:
- Create a 'dummy clip' in the RMX track by double clicking a cell. This is your automation "control clip".
- Select it, and adjust its length to whatever you want.
- Then select "Envelopes" in the clip editor.
- In the first Envelope drop-down menu, select Stylus RMX. In the second drop-down, you'll see the two Buzz parameters we assigned earlier.
- Select the "1Main Buzz" parameter, and edit its clip envelope (this will automate Buzz for the first RMX Part in midi track 2).
- Repeat for the "2Main Buzz" parameter (this is the automation for the second RMX part in track 3).
Now, whenever you trigger this 'control clip', the envelopes will automate the Chaos Buzz for any clips playing in the other two MIDI tracks. Success!
Two IMPORTANT concepts before I pass out from typing all of this...
1 - To apply the automation you setup in the clip envelopes, the 'control clip' in the RMX track has to be playing.
2 - Whatever parameter values are set in the Configure pane will take precedence over the clip envelope values.
# 2 is a VERY important concept because, for example, if the values for the Buzz parameters in the Configure pane are set to zero, the clip envelopes will have no effect at all. Even if part of the clip envelope is at max value, if the Configure pane control is set to say, 50%, that's as high as the parameter value will go... This is actually a cool thing, because it means you can draw some extreme envelope values, and then use the Configure pane controls to "limit" the effects of those.
It can also lead to those "why aren't my clip envelopes affecting anything??" kinds of moments, so I mention it...
TIP: you might want to MIDI Map the Configure pane automation assignments to controls on your hardware controller, so you can remote control the "level" of the effect being automated by the envelope. (and also to adjust the values when the automation 'control clips' aren't playing.) ... I say this because Buzz isn't the only parameter you will be automating this way. These steps apply to pretty much any parameter in RMX...
OK, let's test the setup:
- Select the RMX track, and make sure the assignments in the Configure pane are set to their Max value.
- Trigger all the clips.
You should hear your Chaos Buzz being automated by the "control clip", using the envelopes you created.
Look at the Chaos Editor in RMX. You should see the buzz fader moving along with the Clip Envelope automation.
Look at the Configure pane. You'll see the red "automation dot" moving according to your envelope (if you set the value in the Configure pane to something less than the max value in the envelope, you'll see that the parameter value -- the red dot -- never goes higher than that Configure pane setting).
That it... the basic concept... it's actually really easy to setup and use once you get the hang of how the parts work together. It's a LOT less complicated than my wordiness makes it look
Hope this helps some!!
peace.
iMac 5K 27", 4.2Ghz i7, 16GB RAM, 3TB Fusion HD: Focusrite 6i6 v2: NI S88 keyboard
MacBookPro 13", 2.4Ghz i5, 8GB RAM, 500GB SSD
MacOS 10.12.6 (Sierra)
Apps:: Live Suite 9.7.4, Logic Pro X
Plugins:: hordes...
MacBookPro 13", 2.4Ghz i5, 8GB RAM, 500GB SSD
MacOS 10.12.6 (Sierra)
Apps:: Live Suite 9.7.4, Logic Pro X
Plugins:: hordes...