Is anyone else MASSIVELY excited to see Avatar?

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ethios4
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Re: Is anyone else MASSIVELY excited to see Avatar?

Post by ethios4 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:15 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:For that matter, his comments about people not wanting to deal with that part of American history are complete shite. FFS. For the last 20+ years there have been scores of books and movies that endeavored to set the record straight on what happened to the native people of the Americas.
Hahahahahahahahhaa, you think making books and movies is setting the record straight? People here have dealt with the history of slavery in America far more than they have the history of genocide. Ask the average person what they think about African slavery and they will tell you it was a terrible thing, should never have happened, and they probably know a decent amount about what happened. Ask the average person what they know about native American genocide and they will look at you blankly, deny it, say "those Indians weren't using the land anyway", or maybe just maybe say "yea it was unfair but was going to happen anyway."

African-Americans where given voting rights in 1870 when the 15th amendment prohibited discrimination against citizens on the basis of race. Native-Americans weren't even legally considered human at that point, much less citizens. It wasn't until 1924 that Native Americans were considered fully human. In fact, my great grandfather murdered his native wife, which was fine, but was stopped from murdering his children because they were at least half-white.

Most educated people know that some of the 'founding fathers' had slaves yes, but some didn't and great people like Jefferson wanted to free the slaves all along. Yea great, but the 'founding fathers' were unanimous that genocide against the natives was essential, Jefferson most definitely and explicitly included.

LoopStationZebra
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Re: Is anyone else MASSIVELY excited to see Avatar?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:19 pm

Brah. The article was self serving Liberal White Guilt . Nothing more. It used Avatar, which gets mentioned like twice in 10+ paragraphs ffs lol, as merely a spring board to bitch about something that happened before his Great Great Grandparents were born. Instead of a more in depth (if that's even fucking possible) analysis of the movie, the article is just a horrid combination of admonishment and flagellation.

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Whatever. It told me nothing. Exactly what I expect from the Guardian; which used to be an excellent rag but now every fucking article is pretty much the same scenario: Admonishment and Flagellation.
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LoopStationZebra
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Re: Is anyone else MASSIVELY excited to see Avatar?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:22 pm

ethios4 wrote:
LoopStationZebra wrote:For that matter, his comments about people not wanting to deal with that part of American history are complete shite. FFS. For the last 20+ years there have been scores of books and movies that endeavored to set the record straight on what happened to the native people of the Americas.
Hahahahahahahahhaa, you think making books and movies is setting the record straight? People here have dealt with the history of slavery in America far more than they have the history of genocide. Ask the average person what they think about African slavery and they will tell you it was a terrible thing, should never have happened, and they probably know a decent amount about what happened. Ask the average person what they know about native American genocide and they will look at you blankly, deny it, say "those Indians weren't using the land anyway", or maybe just maybe say "yea it was unfair but was going to happen anyway."

African-Americans where given voting rights in 1870 when the 15th amendment prohibited discrimination against citizens on the basis of race. Native-Americans weren't even legally considered human at that point, much less citizens. It wasn't until 1924 that Native Americans were considered fully human. In fact, my great grandfather murdered his native wife, which was fine, but was stopped from murdering his children because they were at least half-white.

Most educated people know that some of the 'founding fathers' had slaves yes, but some didn't and great people like Jefferson wanted to free the slaves all along. Yea great, but the 'founding fathers' were unanimous that genocide against the natives was essential, Jefferson most definitely and explicitly included.

Pfft. Accurate books and movies are far better than nothing at all. Most school text books have also been updated as well. What more do you want? Billboards? The truth tattooed to the foreheads of every white newborn? ffs. Though that would be cool.

It's a far cry from the Westerns of the 40s - 70s; where all Indians were little more than mindless savages that cooked white people for lunch.
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ethios4
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Re: Is anyone else MASSIVELY excited to see Avatar?

Post by ethios4 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:33 pm

Yep, white guilt. I didn't fully understand that term until I saw Avatar....maybe I still don't get it. Is it wrong for me to comprehend what happened on this continent? Am I supposed to just ignore it so I don't suffer from 'self-serving white guilt'? It seems to me that it is a term used to diffuse the horror of comprehension of genocide...awww man that's just white guilt. I think that is what is meant by saying that people don't want to deal with it. If you understand what happened and try to talk about it, you are just experience 'white guilt syndrome' or some shit.

Ever been to a reservation? Ever seen a people desperately trying to cope with the utter loss of their culture and heritage, trying to find some way to fit in with the world around them while retaining at least something of their past?

I agree that we are all here right now, and the present is what counts...no sense in being trapped in the wrongs of the past...how far back would that go? At the same time, there is no denying that being forced onto a reservation on the shittiest non-productive land in the country is going to impact future generations in a serious way. So the effects are very real and very present.

ethios4
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Re: Is anyone else MASSIVELY excited to see Avatar?

Post by ethios4 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:38 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:What more do you want? Billboards? The truth tattooed to the foreheads of every white newborn? ffs. Though that would be cool.
Yea, making movies and books and such about it is a step in the right direction. Ultimately I don't think there is anything much to do about it, in terms of correcting the past. Well of course lands could be given back, etc, but that will never ever happen, and in hundreds of years it will all be normalized like it is in other places of the world. It's just really sad to me and I feel angry about it.

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Re: Is anyone else MASSIVELY excited to see Avatar?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:46 pm

My head hurts and I may just whip myself this afternoon for even coming back to this thread.

I'm saying this: Who gives a shit what's happened in the past? We never learn from it, do we? Fuck me. Avatar as some sort of 'warning message' doesn't mean shit. Christ. We NEVER fucking LEARN from OUR MISTAKES. lol. I just loath 'cautionary tales'. Why? Because they are worthless and self indulgent. lol. Setting The Record Straight is important and noble I suppose but, at the fucking bitter end of the day, it doesn' mean jack shit and doesn't do fuck all except make people feel rightous in 'exposing the truth'.

Name one example where we have learned from history. Just one. That's all I ask. One time.

Avatar can make $800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 and be permanently imprinted in our brains and taught to school children 24/7 but, the fact remains, if we discovered a vast amount of some new amazing energy mineral beneath the State of Florida in just 2 years the North American map would look like this:

Image


Which leads me to this:
Avatar is fucking stupid and manipulative because it uses cute and sexy ALIENS to prove it's point. We would glady do that today to our fellow Humans, but since we all pretty much know that, Cameron had to use cute aliens to gain sympathy. Which, you know, is stupid. Why? Because we if we'd do it to humans we sure as shit would do it to aliens. Braaaaaahhhhhh. Fuck me.
Last edited by LoopStationZebra on Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ethios4
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Re: Is anyone else MASSIVELY excited to see Avatar?

Post by ethios4 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:50 pm

I guess I just feel that it's really easy for you or I to say "that was all in the past, I didn't steal any lands or kill anyone" but we didn't have to give anything up, or lose lands, or grow up on some shitty reservation.

On the other hand, the only way out of reservation poverty is probably to think "that was all in the past, my lands weren't stolen, I'm going to make the best of it with what I have", which definitely does not seem to be going on much on reservations.

At any rate, thanks for banging your head against the wall with me. As always, I appreciate the discussion. And FWIW, I have personally learned from history and it has helped change me into a more compassionate person.

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