it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
studiologic
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it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by studiologic » Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:32 pm

with all these "great" sample libraries available today the time has come for 64-bit ableton live...

plus, these 64-bit machine are becoming cheaper and cheaper...

i know cubase, sonar and reaper are 64-bit but live is my weapon of choice...

nbinder
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by nbinder » Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:38 pm

...so what are you expecting to change? Do you know the differences between 32 and 64 bit programs...?

julienb
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by julienb » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:04 pm

nbinder wrote:...so what are you expecting to change? Do you know the differences between 32 and 64 bit programs...?
:lol:

Pasha
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by Pasha » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:04 pm

The 64 bit stuff will not change too much what we're doing today.
Yes we could address incredible amounts of RAM, let's say 16 GB (and I assure that will cost a lot).
EIC Piano takes 6 GB. All samples in RAM, many other sampled instruments there and RAM will become
a limited resource again.
Yes we could process more data for CPU cycle but only for very long instructions.
I see improvements in graphic rendering of 3d Worlds, Audio Rendering, but real time?
Not so much. Live needs to be stabilized as a 32 bit application in a 64 bit OS World (Snow Leopard/Windows 7)
and then believe me, it won't be only a recompile... software needs to the re-engineered for 64 bit computing
and a small company like Ableton cannot afford having two different coding strains (32 and 64) multiplied by two
(Mac OS X and Windows) they will switch to a single 64 bit version when it will be safer to do so however
that time is not now.

- my 2 cents
- Pasha
Apple iMac 2013 / Macbook Late 2012
Live 10 Suite,Zebra ,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

julienb
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by julienb » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:14 pm

Pasha wrote:Live needs to be stabilized as a 32 bit application in a 64 bit OS World (Snow Leopard/Windows 7)
This is the geatest challenge these days: 32/64bits working together...
btw, working on the 64bit version would solve that.

the bit number doesn't matter... it has to be very stable, it is the only thing I expect.

studiologic
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by studiologic » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:22 pm

what i find funny is fl studio is 64-bit...

even the downloader want 64-bit...

why not ableton live!!!

BassTooth
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by BassTooth » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:40 pm

lowered latency?
...I used Steinberg Cubase 5 because it is the only audio recording software I found that supports 64-bit operating environments. This is a critical component, because a 64-bit audio workstation handles memory processing faster than a 32-bit machine, which in turn helps reduce latency. It also means you can access nearly unlimited amounts of RAM, even beyond the 4 GB configuration for this build. The 64-bit processing in Cubase 5 is very accurate and fast–on a 32-bit workstation, there is a bit less power for memory processing. I found this out when I tried running benchmarks on another PC with Vista 32-bit, PreSonus FireStudio (which currently only supports 32-bit drivers), and Sonar LE, a 32-bit audio-recording program. As you'll see on the next page, the 64-bit audio workstation runs at a very low latency of about 13 ms compared to a latency of about 26-33 ms for a 32-bit machine running FireStudio.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dig ... 336-4.html

leedsquietman
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by leedsquietman » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:44 pm

Most 64 bit versions of apps have multiple problems, especially when using 3rd party plugins which require bit bridging.

There are often driver issues too.

Most people running Cubase 5 run the 32 bit app inside a 64 bit o/s, it just works much better with less compatibility issues. The 3rd party bit bridge 'J-Bridge' is more effective than Cubase and Sonar's internal bit bridging and helps a lot but there are still issues.

I find it notable that both LOGIC 9 and DIGITAL PERFORMER 7 (recent mac only releases) and SAMPLITUDE/SEQUOIA 11 (PC) are still 32 bit only applications.

Unless you have good 64 bit drivers for your audio and MIDI devices and are running natively coded 64 bit plugins (very few and far between at the moment), it's better to stick with 32 bit versions of DAW apps for now, which do run with a performance boost in a 64 bit o/s if the driver issue is OK.

The latency issue is actually mixed, many have not noticed any improvement and in fact, windows XP 32 still typically provides the best low latency drivers (mostly because XP typically has lower system latency as a whole and because developers had 7 years to fine tune their drivers). 32 bit Core Audio drivers on Mac OSX typically have the best latency figures for many products.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

d-track
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by d-track » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:53 am

bullshit.
*-*

Atardecer
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by Atardecer » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:28 am

ableton is falling behind here. I guess it depends on your application but i work in film music and ableton cannot be considered a contender without being able to address more RAM. When you load up BFD2 & Kontakt all of a sudden the memory restrictions start to look quite dated. I run a 64 bit machine at work using Cubase, Kontakt etc and J-Bridge for 32-bit plugs with little by way of problems. Its worth checking these days when you buy hardware/interfaces what the company's 64-bit support is like. But agreed, the 32-bit version of Live needs some serious work before they should even consider a 64-bit app.

leedsquietman
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by leedsquietman » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:12 am

bullshit
quote Jack Nicholson in 'A Few Good Men' "You can't handle the truth" :lol:

RME Fireface UC - lowest latency performance stats (courtesy rme's website).
Mac OSX - 14 samples
Win XP32 - 32 samples
Win Vista and Win 7 - 48 samples

Very few people have Cubase 5 64 bit working reliably, especially with TC and UAD cards (who are just getting around to making solid drivers), and J-Bridge is definately required.

Also most plugins are still 32 bit and present compatibility issues. The consensus at the Cubase forum is that J-Bridge is helpful in around 75-80% of cases that still means 1 in every 5 plugin won't currently work.

Even though SNow Leopard came out, Logic 9, Digital Performer 7 (both very recent releases) are still 32 bit. Protools 8 has no plans to launch a 64 bit version imminently (they are working on it but it won't be soon). Samplitude 11 was just released for PC, 32 bit only. The DAW world is a lot slower than the video games industry to make the leap.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

aeon_flux
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by aeon_flux » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:28 pm

i'm not sure if all those from pro-64 camp noticed that even kernel do not run in 64-bit on snow leopard :)

nbinder
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by nbinder » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:36 pm

aeon_flux wrote:i'm not sure if all those from pro-64 camp noticed that even kernel do not run in 64-bit on snow leopard :)
On typical macbooks/mac-pros it does not. However you can boot into 64bit mode by pressing 6 and 4 during startup.

One has to dig deeper into the topic to understand why and where 64bit can be better. In case of the kernel one has to realize that the kernel itself does not need to address more than 4gb of ram (currently - 2009). There have been some tests comparing the 64bit and 32bit kernel and the results show that there is no major benefit for workstation users right now.

beatpoet
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by beatpoet » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:57 pm

studiologic wrote:what i find funny is fl studio is 64-bit...

even the downloader want 64-bit...

why not ableton live!!!

32 bit just sounds better, all the pros are going back to 32 bit now.
:wink:

mescalin
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Re: it is time for ableton live 64-bit app...

Post by mescalin » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:42 pm

Using more than 2GB RAM in a sesson, that's not exactly minimalism is it, more a train wreck...

i'd have to give myself lashes if I used that much RAM, because I would have been a very bad boy :lol:

Ableton 8, NI Massive, Max 4 Live, other stuff

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