Quality

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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j2j
Posts: 1316
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:12 pm

Re: Quality

Post by j2j » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:15 pm

headquest wrote:
j2j wrote:
ambesound wrote:The complaints and bad word of mouth have now got to the point where it is damaging Ableton's reputation.
I don't think that is so true. I think a lot of people know about, and desire to use Ableton Live. I talk to several people who are trying to get into production, they know about Live, they want to be using it, several of them go to guitarcenter, sweetwater, etc, and buy a license.

If anything, drastic changes in the global economy, mean companies need to put out super-high-quality products, if they want super-quality-customers.

That is just that.

Problems with Ableton? Enough that users are switching daws, and avoiding upgrades?

...Wanna have a chat about companies people avoid?
I used to avoid Steinberg because Cuabse SX1 and 2 were so buggy. I have used Live since version 2, and am currently on version 7 Suite. However, I avoided upgrading to Live 8 partly because of the high cost, and partly because of the bug issues. A bad combination for sure.

In the meantime I gave up waiting for Ableton to fix Live and bought Cubase 5 in the meantime - looking at the various music software offerings I saw how Steinberg have mended their reputation and now have one of the best products out there. I'm very happy with Cubase 5, and no longer really looking for a working Live 8, as I have moved along.

In other words, because of greedy pricing and poor quality, Ableton lost a long time customer and fan (quite a few friends bought Live on my recommendation too). For now. But I applaud their announcement here, and wish them well in fixing Live 8. Perhaps in the future I will be back.


I had one of my usual moments, where I was trying to express an idea, but it didn't quite come through all that clearly, and once again, I contridicted myself, slightly......

+ 1

I also, "avoided," the live 8 upgrade. High cost, bugs, etc.....

But, all in all, I hear a lot of people, "still into ableton," that is what I was trying to say.



But I hear you headquest, and I agree..... Cheers
too many lasers...

headquest
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Re: Quality

Post by headquest » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:19 pm

NP - cheers too :)
iMac Retina 4K 3.3Ghz i7, 16Gb RAM
Live Suite 9.7.1 + Reason 9.1 + Pianoteq 5 + Sibelius 8.5

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myxomat0515
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Location: Florida

Re: Quality

Post by myxomat0515 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:43 pm

Thank you Gerhard, Bernd to remind us all how is to be human again.
rofl

jesus

stutter
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Re: Quality

Post by stutter » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:05 pm

good luck.
If Ableton manage to produce an entirely stable version, this should only improve their reputation.

pyrolator
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Re: Quality

Post by pyrolator » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:23 pm

mr.ergonomics wrote:one of the rare companies with a good attitude, you guys at ableton do it the right way!
+1

mowsley
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:11 pm

Re: Quality

Post by mowsley » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:50 pm

+1.

thanks guys

McQ714
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Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Quality

Post by McQ714 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:56 pm

this is all fine and dandy and i'm glad they are going to sort things out, but the fact is that since the new features do not matter to anyone yet (because we don't know what they are or when we can expect to use them), there was no need to even comment on stopping development of them. Ableton could've quietly fixed everything that needed fixing and surprised us all with that announcement and release at NAMM as well.

i agree that this is an acknowledgement of their mistakes. but i would say more that this was a PR hype move to get the public excited for next month's announcement and to get the negative comments that have plagued the forums lately off the front page.

either way, there's no denying that Gerhard is a smart guy. just get it done already.

i realize that they've squeezed a lot into this last release and probably stretched themselves a little thin, but i would say with the success and income that the APC40, M4L, and Launchpad have generated, they could've hired more help. As i'm sure they are getting a piece of the profits from the APC and LP. those 2 controllers have probably generated a lot more interest in Live than could've been expected.

btw, i'm not having nearly as many issues, if any at all, as the rest of the users seem to be. but, i probably don't use Live to the extent that some performers do, either!

marcoskohler
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:13 am

Re: Quality

Post by marcoskohler » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:57 pm

myxomat0515 wrote:
Thank you Gerhard, Bernd to remind us all how is to be human again.
rofl

jesus

haha

Machinesworking
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Location: Seattle

Re: Quality

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:58 pm

Just read Gerhard's post on quality, this is really pretty great news!

As most regular posters know I'm not one to shout out about how every little thing Ableton does is great etc.
but this is really very, very cool. All DAWs I have used have times when releases are not up to standards, no DAW maker gets it 100% right every time. Live 8 isn't alone, Logic 7 was hosed for 9 months, DP6 was low quality for MOTU, SX1 and 2 were mediocre etc.
What made Emagic cool to me wasn't only the program Logic itself, but it's openness online as a company when problems arose. They posted that the initial release of Logic 5 wouldn't have multi audio out as planned etc. What sets aside greatness from mediocre companies IMO is that ability to admit when things aren't going according to plans and to let people know without acting weird.
That's gone with Logic, but I see that now with Ableton!

I never doubt a company when they're admitting some faults, no need to.

8O
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Re: Quality

Post by 8O » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:06 am

McQ714 wrote:...but i would say more that this was a PR hype move to get the public excited for next month's announcement...
Out of interest, what are you thinking that they're going to announce at NAMM? New features?
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Tone Deft
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Re: Quality

Post by Tone Deft » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:08 am

8O wrote:
McQ714 wrote:...but i would say more that this was a PR hype move to get the public excited for next month's announcement...
Out of interest, what are you thinking that they're going to announce at NAMM? New features?
the Serato collaboration.
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

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8O
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Re: Quality

Post by 8O » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:12 am

Tone Deft wrote:
8O wrote:
McQ714 wrote:...but i would say more that this was a PR hype move to get the public excited for next month's announcement...
Out of interest, what are you thinking that they're going to announce at NAMM? New features?
the Serato collaboration.
Ok, so I guess that will be put on ice too...?
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McQ714
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Re: Quality

Post by McQ714 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:24 am

obviously the Serato collaboration. and whatever else they've got up their sleeves.. new "Share" implementation, features, etc.

Ableton apparentely likes to do things very big for such a small company. Calling a press conference is a huge attention whore move in my book. they want to be noticed.

so how do we do that? first, we'll announce a partnership years in advance. next, when it's close to being ready, we'll call a press conference that'll get everyone talking. how else can we build hype in our product? let's start fixing the things that we've broken recently. but we won't do it quietly. We'll make sure the public knows that we're working on that and only that until it's done. then finally, we'll make a big announcement at a press conference at NAMM, which is itself a huge press conference already and is widely covered by most, if not all, of the audio industry newsletter websites already. so anything that Ableton could've mentioned, would've been spread around the community like wildfire.

Go big or go home... right?

like i've said, i like Live and i use Live exclusively. this "quality" notice wasn't directed at those like me. i didn't need the reassurance that they were fixing things as it seems they always do eventually.

and nobody ever said the next release would be bug free, so you all get to do this all over again???

arachnaut
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Re: Quality

Post by arachnaut » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:30 am

Speaking as a software developer of extremely reliable systems; I think it is great that Ableton move from a company that is expected to produce a yearly new release to a company that produces stable new releases.

8O
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Re: Quality

Post by 8O » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:31 am

McQ714 wrote:obviously the Serato collaboration. and whatever else they've got up their sleeves.. new "Share" implementation, features, etc.

Ableton apparentely likes to do things very big for such a small company. Calling a press conference is a huge attention whore move in my book. they want to be noticed.

so how do we do that? first, we'll announce a partnership years in advance. next, when it's close to being ready, we'll call a press conference that'll get everyone talking. how else can we build hype in our product? let's start fixing the things that we've broken recently. but we won't do it quietly. We'll make sure the public knows that we're working on that and only that until it's done. then finally, we'll make a big announcement at a press conference at NAMM, which is itself a huge press conference already and is widely covered by most, if not all, of the audio industry newsletter websites already. so anything that Ableton could've mentioned, would've been spread around the community like wildfire.

Go big or go home... right?

like i've said, i like Live and i use Live exclusively. this "quality" notice wasn't directed at those like me. i didn't need the reassurance that they were fixing things as it seems they always do eventually.
Nah, I still don't get your logic... the original message said...
We have now decided to:

* suspend all development towards new features while the whole team joins forces to address the current issues. This effort is open ended and will result in a free Live 8 update;
...this means no new features. But at the same time you think NAMM will be full of "obviously the Serato collaboration. and whatever else they've got up their sleeves.. new "Share" implementation, features, etc.".

I.e. they fix all major issues in just over 2 weeks so that they can then develop the NAMM-announced features...?
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