Quality

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Angstrom
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Re: Quality

Post by Angstrom » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:03 pm

wow, its going to be an intense New Year at Ableton!

First the proposed 'Share' system gets put back onto the drawing-board stage, and now the whole Live is also having a quiet moment to collect its thoughts.
Unusual, but surely welcomed by everyone.

I can't imagine what the process for this huge task will be.
It's surely more complex than just saying : "Hey everyone, stop what you are doing and look for bugs" .

ze2be
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Re: Quality

Post by ze2be » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:03 pm

chapelier fou wrote:Thanks very much, keep up the good work.
+1 :)

SubFunk
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Re: Quality

Post by SubFunk » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:07 pm

Dennis DeSantis wrote:
ark wrote:In what way is this different from Ableton's prior practice? There have always been bugfix updates, as far as I know.
Right, there's no real difference in what we'll actually deliver - a bugfix update.

The difference is that entire development team is now working on fixing bugs, rather than on new features.

Best,
very nice to see that all the "moaners" where not just talking hot air!

welcome to the one and only power, the truth.

and thanks!

quality THE german attitude i was starting to miss so much is back! yeah!

and THANKS AGAIN.
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Parametex
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Re: Quality

Post by Parametex » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:10 pm

SUPER SUPER SUPER SUPER SUPER GREAT !!!!

Sincerely thank you guys for this move! I've been with live since version 2 and can say that this is the right decision right _now_.

I'm encountering a lot of crashing (around 2-5 a day) and they drive me utterly insane. I'll be sure to try to much reports etc to help you (myself!) out!

Thanks!

djsynchro
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Re: Quality

Post by djsynchro » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:12 pm

Straight into the heart! Nice one, glad to have chosen Ableton as my DAW of choice, better product better people. Guess we the users just wanted to be heard, Live did get a massive overhaul, there's Max there's clip triggering Live-specific hardware. Carry on!!! :D :D :D

mr.ergonomics
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Re: Quality

Post by mr.ergonomics » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:13 pm

one of the rare companies with a good attitude, you guys at ableton do it the right way!

djsynchro
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Re: Quality

Post by djsynchro » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:16 pm

This really is the right move I can only think of one thing I'd want, but it is not a necessity Live 8 really is so feature rich and amazing, to just get it really really tight surely is the thing to do. I know there is competition but Ableton is leading by a comfortable margin. Wow the whole team is on the bugs? 2010 is going to be a rocking year!!!! Thanks Abletonians, super good news! :D 8)

nowtime
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Re: Quality

Post by nowtime » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:19 pm

Hallelujah! Thank you.

Maybe I'll get my 8-track Looper to work after all.... 8)

and maybe i shouldn't get my hopes up. Either way, this is a good thing.

gjm
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Re: Quality

Post by gjm » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:19 pm

Very weird. Definitely more than meets the eye :?
iMac - 10.10.3 - Live 9 Suite - APC40 - Axiom 61 - TX81z - Firestudio Mobile - Focal Alpha 80's - Godin Session - Home made foot controller

roller8
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Re: Quality

Post by roller8 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:24 pm

Keep up the great work Ableton team! I just upgraded to the full Suite with confidence!

sxezskoz
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Re: Quality

Post by sxezskoz » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:30 pm

impressive move! proud to be a user, can't say that all too often
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ark
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Re: Quality

Post by ark » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:31 pm

Dennis DeSantis wrote:
ark wrote:In what way is this different from Ableton's prior practice? There have always been bugfix updates, as far as I know.
Right, there's no real difference in what we'll actually deliver - a bugfix update.
Ah, OK -- I guess I misunderstood.

I do have one request: Please release 8.1.1 soon even if there are still enough unresolved problems to make it necessary to release 8.1.2 along with additional betas.

My rationale is that everyone who purchased Max for Live is now in a bind: 8.1 has severe problems (for example, every time you use a drum rack, you risk freezing the GUI), and once you've gone to 8.1, there's no going back to 8.0 because you can't load anything you've saved under 8.0.

Of course you can use the 8.1.1 betas, but Ableton considers them unreliable enough to warn against saving anything important with them. Moreover, they have the performance overhead associated with event logging. Plus, if you're trying to use Max for Live, you can't switch between 8.1 and 8.1.1 because they seem to require different versions of Max to work properly.

Mentioning 8.1.1b5 as a release candidate suggests that it (or something very close to it) will be released as 8.1.1 soon. Yes, please! I think that releasing 8.1.1 sooner rather than later will make a big difference to the user community.

McQ714
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Re: Quality

Post by McQ714 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:47 pm

I, for one, am somewhat skeptical that they are actually stopping all new developments to fix bugs. With NAMM approaching very quickly, and obviously new features are going to be announced, they'll want to have some sort of time frame for those features or a new version to be released. they don't know how long the bug fixes are going to take. so they are going to lost every minute of development time and then some for getting back to what they were doing before this announcement was made. this could easily lose them 2 months on the new version's release and result in a 2 month loss of income for the new year... maybe more!

so half the team.. maybe. all of the team to fix bugs... no way in hell!

and Gerhard, it's not your job to make sure your employees are doing their job efficiently, is it? seems like the kind of micro-management that brings companies down.

this whole announcement makes it seem as if Ableton is employing a bunch of gaming geeks as their programmers, who just fuck around until they are told to do some productive and even then, can't get the programming code right!

so SubFunk.... if by "german attitude", you mean pulling the wool over our eyes and smacking us on the back of the head with a flugelhorn, then i think you may be right!

i really want this to be nothing but truth, but my experience as a consumer in this pro audio market leads me to believe that this isn't entirely truthful.

programmers... i challenge you to prove me wrong!!!

8O
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Re: Quality

Post by 8O » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:57 pm

McQ714 wrote:I, for one, am somewhat skeptical that they are actually stopping all new developments to fix bugs. With NAMM approaching very quickly, and obviously new features are going to be announced, they'll want to have some sort of time frame for those features or a new version to be released. they don't know how long the bug fixes are going to take. so they are going to lost every minute of development time and then some for getting back to what they were doing before this announcement was made. this could easily lose them 2 months on the new version's release and result in a 2 month loss of income for the new year... maybe more!

so half the team.. maybe. all of the team to fix bugs... no way in hell!

and Gerhard, it's not your job to make sure your employees are doing their job efficiently, is it? seems like the kind of micro-management that brings companies down.

this whole announcement makes it seem as if Ableton is employing a bunch of gaming geeks as their programmers, who just fuck around until they are told to do some productive and even then, can't get the programming code right!

so SubFunk.... if by "german attitude", you mean pulling the wool over our eyes and smacking us on the back of the head with a flugelhorn, then i think you may be right!

i really want this to be nothing but truth, but my experience as a consumer in this pro audio market leads me to believe that this isn't entirely truthful.

programmers... i challenge you to prove me wrong!!!
Read up on program and project management with limited resources. You can't do everything, you have to choose your strategy (and then adapt)...

Edit: very interesting question about NAMM though - dunno how you sell this move as a flashy new feature...
Last edited by 8O on Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ark
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Re: Quality

Post by ark » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:02 pm

McQ714 wrote:they don't know how long the bug fixes are going to take. so they are going to lost every minute of development time and then some for getting back to what they were doing before this announcement was made.
I guess you must not have worked on software development very much.

When a project has enough problems, those problems slow down new development, sometimes a lot. The reason is that the people working on the new stuff are typically not the same people as the ones fixing the bugs. That means that a developer working on a new feature who encounters a bug that gets in the way cannot simply fix the bug. Rather, a bug-fix request has to make its way through the system, the fix has to make its way back, and meanwhile work on the new feature is halted.

That is, unless the developer of the new feature figures out a way to work around the bug. Such workarounds are common, but each one adds complexity to a system that is already too complicated--if it were not too complicated, bugs would not have been a problem in the first place.

So although it may sound paradoxical, sometimes a project can be in a state in which halting all work on new features and putting all effort into making the existing code more reliable can reduce the total amount of time it takes for a new version with new features to be completed successfully.

There are very few software managers who realize this, and I am happy to see that some of them work for Ableton.

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