Quality

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
3phase
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Re: Quality

Post by 3phase » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:21 pm

as long its fixed its good... i really got bad feelings when reading the "quality" anouncement as i ve explained here...
but only because grouptracks have prooven to be handy and i used them all over for many song sketches.. and as soon i finalized one and found out that i have to redo them all...place all the plug ins again in any subtrack... i stopped using live.. or planed to rewire it in logic to overcome that limitation...
and sold the apc because it dont works when live is in rewire... 100 euros lost ..
such little things have big impacts an workflow and equipment config..
I hope live behaves well as a rewired sidekick..it insists anyway to be a rewire slave when another daw is open...

You defently should quickly overcome the rewire midi problem.. can´t be so difficult.. just enable a port as youve done for the capslock keyboard of logic... or alow third party apps like midi pipes or bomes virtual port or the iac driver to be acssed from live within rewire... the rest the users can patch themself than..at least as a first step..
really would have liked to keep my apc.. but in this situation i decided to sell it before another product brings the second hand price down even further...



I still think that the "no new features" policy should´nt exclude optimisations of allready implemented features and support for the new dedicated controlers..
because this would show that its not all about the money ..
Live 9 anyway needs a bigger attraction than just improovements of given features...
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Jarvisimon
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Re: Quality

Post by Jarvisimon » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:26 pm

buzby wrote:i think NI should suspend all development to new features and join forces to write half decent instruction manuals
I know you're having a laugh, however, I doubt too many other manufacturers would take the step of suspending new projects to concentrate on old ones. Many don't need to but the one's that do may not be forward thinking enough to see this as a necessity.

The Propellerheads produce the most stable platform because they have kept the application plug-in free. The downside being, until they add instrument development tools ala Reaktor/Max4Live/Synth Maker etc, you're stuck with the limited output from 30 swedish programmers, developed over 10 yrs, which is good but not nearly as abundant as the output of tens of thousands of programmers developing VST's and other plug-in formats.

SubFunk
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Re: Quality

Post by SubFunk » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:31 pm

^^^ well yes and no, they could decide to not support that awful crappy VST format and introduce a AU test run for compatibility a la Logics AU inspector.

that would certainly help to make it more reliable. but they probably would need to drop windows for that (which they should do anyways, IMO)
or some windows developer should introduce a plugin format that has actually 'norms' or can be run through a compatibility test and if live does not like it, well you simply can't use it, for the sake of reliability.

i love that in logic, any crappy coded AU is simply rejected... Live does not even give you that AU test on a mac... even they support AUs in the mac version... WTF?

and then people claim all the time it's major problem (live's) is 3rd party plugins... well at least on a mac they could give us an AU inspector, to outsource at least any shit coded AU.

logic never crashes because of a 3rd party plugin, because a shit 3rd party plugin want be loaded first of all, respectively you can force it, with the warning that you might loose stability, YOUR CHOICE, that is fair!!!

but i guess it's difficult to do that, because they support fucking windows shit as well.
Last edited by SubFunk on Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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3phase
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Re: Quality

Post by 3phase » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:31 pm

Angstrom wrote:
3phase wrote:ok.. good
.. time to move on the wonderfull world of logic 9 is waiting..
you will be greatly missed

i would say more people like me are mising here... otherwise there would have been mre critic voices in the first place.. and the amount of bugs i came along clearly shows that not the first fanboy that signs on should do the public beta tests.. or lets say the osther way around.. beta testing shouldnt be done by fanboys at all.. because you have to do what you want with a program ad not make what the program wants you to do to come along the bugs.. 08/15 standard operations are probably well checked by the ableton stuff allready... but copyng bar 1 to 740 to bar 32 while the sequencer is running on 24 tracks?
thats work.. no fanboy would do this ..they play with some presets around and are happy because they have a new feature thats soooo coool... and instead bug reports you get constantly reports how great you are... and than you start to belife taht..and bang... down the hill...
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Jarvisimon
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Re: Quality

Post by Jarvisimon » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:36 pm

3phase wrote:Live 9 anyway needs a bigger attraction than just improovements of given features...
I'm sure Live 9 will have many very useful new features (I would like to see ALL Live's samplers automatically time stretch samples when you change master tempo), I would also like to see better implementation of User Scripts allowing more controllers to integrate better with Live and i'm sure there will be plenty more on top of all this.

However, the thing I would like to see most is happy posts from content consumers and perhaps even a published bug list, so that you can keep an eye on fixes when it's faults become known.

headquest
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Re: Quality

Post by headquest » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:41 pm

Jarvisimon wrote: The Propellerheads produce the most stable platform because they have kept the application plug-in free.
An often stated view, but I'm not sure how much difference this really makes? For example, reading the Live changelogs I don't see much reference to VST/AU support - thankfully the bugs are being fixed thick and fast, but reading the list they seem to be problems with Live features themselves, not its plugin hosting...

Maybe Record/Reason are just really well coded and tested - their beta phase certainly seems to go on a lot longer (4-6 months) while they get everything fixed. I'm really hoping that Ableton will go down that route with Live 9, and really extend the beta phase to something longer and more effective before putting it on sale. Here's hoping... :D
Last edited by headquest on Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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su
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Re: Quality

Post by su » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:42 pm

The openness and transparency of the company was one of the major reasons I switched from one of the other big DAWs. While demoing the program I'd read posts in the Live 8 Beta testing area. There were very frequent, honest, thoughtful responses from Ableton employees during that process. And most importantly, the whole process was out in public view. The beta testing process for the other DAW was not at all visible to users. Of course I love how Live works and that's the major selling point, but I also appreciate the values of the company that are communicated in actions not just words. The response from the Abes at the beginning of the thread is one more example of this IMO.

Jarvisimon
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Re: Quality

Post by Jarvisimon » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:43 pm

SubFunk wrote:^^^ well yes and no, they could decide to not support that awful crappy VST format and introduce a AU test run for compatibility a la Logics AU inspector.

that would certainly help to make it more reliable. but they probably would need to drop windows for that (which they should do anyways, IMO)
or some windows developer should introduce a plugin format that has actually 'norms' or can be run through a compatibility test and if live does not like it, well you simply can't use it, for the sake of reliability.

I'd be a bit unhappy if Windows were dropped, saying that, I hope they make it compatible with Google's Chrome, which as far as I know, is open sourced and free, so maybe Windows isn't so necessary after all.

As long as I can carry on using Reaktor's Spark, i'll be a happy man. Oh, and i've recently fallen for freebie VST Atlantis, it's superb, i'm half-way through writing a whole track with it and it's proving to be a pretty capable application, though doesn't quite make Massive redundant.

So, don't get rid of VST's.

SubFunk
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Re: Quality

Post by SubFunk » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:46 pm

headquest wrote:
Jarvisimon wrote: The Propellerheads produce the most stable platform because they have kept the application plug-in free.
An often stated view, but I'm not sure how much difference this really makes? For example, reading the Live changelogs I don't see much reference to VST/AU support - thankfully the bugs are being fixed thick and fast, but reading the list they seem to be problems with Live features themselves, not its plugin hosting...
yeah... i just wrote my take on it, look at the AU format under logic, it's brilliant, a dodgy coded plug want load... it does not pass the validation test, making logic dead stable (at least crashes are NOT caused by 3rd party plugs) and if you force a rejected plug to load, which you can do... well then it's your own risk.

live under OSX does not even validate AUs, even AUs allow that 'technology' or whatever you want to call this strike of genius.
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SubFunk
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Re: Quality

Post by SubFunk » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:51 pm

and whatever, i am happy about the announcement as long as it's not just hot air and live is going to be stable enough again to enjoy a whole day of music making... it needs to allow me to totally forget that live is actually there when i work. that is absolutely all i want. the rest i don't care much.
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Angstrom
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Re: Quality

Post by Angstrom » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:51 pm

3phase wrote:
Angstrom wrote:
3phase wrote:ok.. good
.. time to move on the wonderfull world of logic 9 is waiting..
you will be greatly missed

i would say more people like me are mising here... otherwise there would have been mre critic voices in the first place.. and the amount of bugs i came along clearly shows that not the first fanboy that signs on should do the public beta tests.. or lets say the osther way around.. beta testing shouldnt be done by fanboys at all.. because you have to do what you want with a program ad not make what the program wants you to do to come along the bugs.. 08/15 standard operations are probably well checked by the ableton stuff allready... but copyng bar 1 to 740 to bar 32 while the sequencer is running on 24 tracks?
thats work.. no fanboy would do this ..they play with some presets around and are happy because they have a new feature thats soooo coool... and instead bug reports you get constantly reports how great you are... and than you start to belife taht..and bang... down the hill...
you are correct, that's exactly how it is.
It's great because if I want something, I spin my fanboy hat 3 times and it's instantly transmuted from being a feature wish into a fixed bug. I just say "Because it doesn't work the way I wanted it to it is a bug".

I can see that you would be an excellent tester, because your critical thinking is so acute.

Now, back to looping my loop

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